# WARNING - GRAPHIC VISUAL INFORMATION: IJV Compression - Another Point of View **URL:** \ **Category:** General\ **Tags:** internal-jugular-vei\ **Created:** [July 1, 2021, 9:07pm UTC](https://forum.livingwitheagle.org/t/warning-graphic-visual-information-ijv-compression-another-point-of-view/9579 "2021-07-01T21:07:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![vdm](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex027/user_avatar/forum.livingwitheagle.org/vdm/32/4794_2.png) [@vdm](https://forum.livingwitheagle.org/u/vdm)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2022, 2:34am UTC](https://forum.livingwitheagle.org/t/warning-graphic-visual-information-ijv-compression-another-point-of-view/9579/41 "2022-06-11T02:34:40Z")
Weeeell as you can see, I am working towards it, using myself as a test subject! šŸ˜‰ So far, the findings are: - in flexion, the styloid processes hit the C1 and the neck stops moving (confirmed by multiple x-rays) - upright standing posture significantly flexes the spine, while supine lying posture makes it flatter (MRI vs upright X-ray whole spine imaging) - jugulars and arteries in the neck can be trapped by various structures and occasionally move out of the entrapment sites or to different place (multiple CTAs showing differently arranged blood vessels in the neck) - sometimes manually compressing dominating IJV while sitting it increases pressure in the head, sometimes - doesnā€™t. Why - I donā€™t have the answer yet, but that sounds the most interesting and suspicious variable so far, perhaps based on how well the remaining veins pass the blood at that precise time point, amount of CSF in the system and so on Hang on, I am looking for the publisher! ---
**Author:** ![Isaiah\_40\_31](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex027/user_avatar/forum.livingwitheagle.org/isaiah_40_31/32/3054_2.png) [@Isaiah\_40\_31](https://forum.livingwitheagle.org/u/Isaiah_40_31)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2022, 3:21am UTC](https://forum.livingwitheagle.org/t/warning-graphic-visual-information-ijv-compression-another-point-of-view/9579/42 "2022-06-12T03:21:35Z")
Thank you for sending the excerpt from Carl Saganā€™s book & the link, @KoolDude. The excerpt certainly provides a great perspective & some excellent food for thought! The human race has indeed proven selfish & power hungry over its existence. How wonderful it would be if we would always ā€œDo unto others as we would have them do unto us.ā€ ---
**Author:** ![Isaiah\_40\_31](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex027/user_avatar/forum.livingwitheagle.org/isaiah_40_31/32/3054_2.png) [@Isaiah\_40\_31](https://forum.livingwitheagle.org/u/Isaiah_40_31)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2022, 4:33am UTC](https://forum.livingwitheagle.org/t/warning-graphic-visual-information-ijv-compression-another-point-of-view/9579/43 "2022-06-12T04:33:54Z")
I agree, w/ @KoolDude, @vdm. It would be great for you to write your own research paper. You & my husband would get along great! I donā€™t have an analytical bone in my body, & it drives him crazy!! When I get excited about research or information Iā€™ve read, he ā€œshoots it downā€ almost every time for the types of reasons you, KoolDude & @coldbear suggest. Iā€™d read your research paper if you write one. Might not be able to follow it perfectly, but could get the gist of it. šŸ˜‰ ---
**Author:** ![vdm](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex027/user_avatar/forum.livingwitheagle.org/vdm/32/4794_2.png) [@vdm](https://forum.livingwitheagle.org/u/vdm)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2022, 4:47am UTC](https://forum.livingwitheagle.org/t/warning-graphic-visual-information-ijv-compression-another-point-of-view/9579/44 "2022-06-12T04:47:00Z")
@Isaiah_40_31 it was more like a dose of sarcasm from my side, but one day my experience will definitely be shared with wider audience somehow! ---
**Author:** ![Isaiah\_40\_31](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex027/user_avatar/forum.livingwitheagle.org/isaiah_40_31/32/3054_2.png) [@Isaiah\_40\_31](https://forum.livingwitheagle.org/u/Isaiah_40_31)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2022, 5:53am UTC](https://forum.livingwitheagle.org/t/warning-graphic-visual-information-ijv-compression-another-point-of-view/9579/45 "2022-06-12T05:53:49Z")
I perceived that, but see you doing good & helpful things with the information youā€™ve gained. ---
**Author:** ![vdm](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex027/user_avatar/forum.livingwitheagle.org/vdm/32/4794_2.png) [@vdm](https://forum.livingwitheagle.org/u/vdm)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2022, 5:56am UTC](https://forum.livingwitheagle.org/t/warning-graphic-visual-information-ijv-compression-another-point-of-view/9579/46 "2022-06-12T05:56:11Z")
I must have mentioned that to avoid any pressure on my painful shoulders! ---
**Author:** ![Isaiah\_40\_31](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex027/user_avatar/forum.livingwitheagle.org/isaiah_40_31/32/3054_2.png) [@Isaiah\_40\_31](https://forum.livingwitheagle.org/u/Isaiah_40_31)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2022, 6:04am UTC](https://forum.livingwitheagle.org/t/warning-graphic-visual-information-ijv-compression-another-point-of-view/9579/47 "2022-06-12T06:04:29Z")
šŸ‘ I totally sympathize w/ your shoulder pain. Iā€™m right there w/ you. Have been having calcific tendinitis worked on via saline injection to break up the calcification on my supraspinatus tendon. First round helped, second round made it worse, & third round is pending. Hurts up to my ear & down to my elbow now. Wondering if Iā€™m having so much trouble on that side because Iā€™ve had all my immunizations over the last several years in that arm (non-dominant arm). ---
**Author:** ![vdm](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex027/user_avatar/forum.livingwitheagle.org/vdm/32/4794_2.png) [@vdm](https://forum.livingwitheagle.org/u/vdm)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2022, 6:22am UTC](https://forum.livingwitheagle.org/t/warning-graphic-visual-information-ijv-compression-another-point-of-view/9579/48 "2022-06-12T06:22:44Z")
Iā€™ve heard on the grapevine that calcified tendons recover in kind of three phases, and the final phase when the freed calcium deposits get reabsorbed by the body is the most painful. So hopefully thatā€™s why?.. ---
**Author:** ![elijah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/2bfe46/32.png) [@elijah](https://forum.livingwitheagle.org/u/elijah)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2022, 2:03pm UTC](https://forum.livingwitheagle.org/t/warning-graphic-visual-information-ijv-compression-another-point-of-view/9579/49 "2022-06-12T14:03:52Z")
Speaking of research, something I wondered is what the long term data on people that had one or both IJV snipped are. We all know and hear from Drs how they tie off peopleā€™s jugulars and theyā€™re ā€œfineā€ but when I asked if there are any subsequent studies 5 years later to see how these people feel and if anything new started for them, they never know. Iā€™d love to be able to make this my full time job, unfortunately, it doesnā€™t pay ā˜¹ ---
**Author:** ![Snapple2020](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c89c15/32.png) [@Snapple2020](https://forum.livingwitheagle.org/u/Snapple2020)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2022, 3:24pm UTC](https://forum.livingwitheagle.org/t/warning-graphic-visual-information-ijv-compression-another-point-of-view/9579/50 "2022-06-12T15:24:47Z")
This is an interesting thread. I think you and I are on the same page about caring medical. They have some interesting helpful educational info on their websiteā€¦butā€¦little clues put up big red flags once you dig deeper. I think I may have shared I had prolo-therapy on and off for over a decade in my neck and spine. I recently unearthed an old consult report from Cedar Sinai Pain Center/Oral Facial specialist that indicated I had nodules in my neck and possible scar tissue caused by the numerous prolo-injections - I have long wondered if they contributed to the calcifications in my neck. If you have any connective tissue disorders and/or Ehlers Danlos, I personally would not buy into the injections. I would suggest going to dry needling instead. There are all kinds of ā€œalternativeā€ type providers doing injections such as PRP, prolo and none of these are covered by insurance. I recently have been looking at a variety of providers around the country doing these injections. They are renaming prolo injections with some other name or claiming their own patented injection fluids. Most all are glucose-based. VDM, let me know when that book is out! šŸ¤£ ---
**Author:** ![vdm](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex027/user_avatar/forum.livingwitheagle.org/vdm/32/4794_2.png) [@vdm](https://forum.livingwitheagle.org/u/vdm)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2022, 6:51pm UTC](https://forum.livingwitheagle.org/t/warning-graphic-visual-information-ijv-compression-another-point-of-view/9579/51 "2022-06-12T18:51:01Z")
@elijah there are some research papers that show people with MS more often have IJV compression and flow problems than healthy control population. IJV decompression movement for MS patients has been started mostly by Italian drs. > **[Internal Jugular Vein Blood Flow in Multiple Sclerosis Patients and Matched...](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3968019/)** > > The aim of the study was to investigate the Internal Jugular Veins dynamics using contrast enhanced ultrasonography in Multiple Sclerosis patients, clinically isolated syndrome patients and healthy controls. Contrast enhanced ultrasonography imaging... [https://doi.org/10.1016/j.permed.2012.03.013](https://doi.org/10.1016/j.permed.2012.03.013) **Update** : @coldbear posted more articles on the MS and venous insufficiency, so the above articles might be inaccurate and should not be taken for granted. ---
**Author:** ![KoolDude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/aeb1de/32.png) [@KoolDude](https://forum.livingwitheagle.org/u/KoolDude)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2022, 7:45pm UTC](https://forum.livingwitheagle.org/t/warning-graphic-visual-information-ijv-compression-another-point-of-view/9579/52 "2022-06-12T19:45:37Z")
@vdm It is also controversial area where there were some studies that question the link between MS and Chronic cerebrospinal venous insufficiency (CCSVI) which some Italian studies suggest. ---
**Author:** ![vdm](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex027/user_avatar/forum.livingwitheagle.org/vdm/32/4794_2.png) [@vdm](https://forum.livingwitheagle.org/u/vdm)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2022, 7:49pm UTC](https://forum.livingwitheagle.org/t/warning-graphic-visual-information-ijv-compression-another-point-of-view/9579/53 "2022-06-12T19:49:05Z")
Exactly. The whole area isnā€™t easy to do the research on simply because there are too many variables, and the study might take too long - our lifestyle might significantly change in the meantime making the initial assumptions not accurate anymore (driving instead of walking; online shopping instead of walking in a real store; smartphones; food quality; less direct social interaction; etc.etc.) Nevertheless, to me it sounds logical: deprivation of nutrients and the oxygen in the brain is obviously doing no good for this organ in the long term (I am pretty sure I could find some studies confirming this, though it feels ā€œcommon senseā€). Compressed/insufficient blood circulation paths lead to reduced supply to/replenishment of these vital elements. ---
**Author:** ![elijah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/2bfe46/32.png) [@elijah](https://forum.livingwitheagle.org/u/elijah)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2022, 4:45pm UTC](https://forum.livingwitheagle.org/t/warning-graphic-visual-information-ijv-compression-another-point-of-view/9579/54 "2022-06-13T16:45:16Z")
This is a relatively new study that shows thereā€™s a correlation between the brains ability to rid toxins and Alzheimerā€™s. I wonder what implications this has for those with IIH and venous congestion? > **[Scientists May Have Found Missing Link Between Alzheimerā€™s and Vascular Disease](https://scitechdaily.com/scientists-may-have-found-missing-link-between-alzheimers-and-vascular-disease/amp/)** > > Alzheimerā€™s disease is the leading cause of dementia in older adults and the 7th most common cause of death in the United States according to the National Institute on Aging. It is a debilitating progressive illness that begins with mild memory loss... ---
**Author:** ![KoolDude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/aeb1de/32.png) [@KoolDude](https://forum.livingwitheagle.org/u/KoolDude)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2022, 5:17pm UTC](https://forum.livingwitheagle.org/t/warning-graphic-visual-information-ijv-compression-another-point-of-view/9579/55 "2022-06-13T17:17:58Z")
If you ask me, the implication is big. As our Jugular Veins (the main clearance pathway) remain impaired, one can hypothesize that our toxic and metabolic clearance is impacted. The degree to which it is impacted might differ depending on the severity of compression and the robustness of the collateral drainage etc. BTW, there are studies linking IJVS/impaired venous outflow to Alzheimerā€™s disease. One pathway that is gaining popularity is glymphatic pathway. > [@MANTOVANI et al. (2022) - The Cerebral Venous System: New Pathophysiological Theories and Diseases Related to Veins Occlusion](https://forum.livingwitheagle.org/t/mantovani-et-al-2022-the-cerebral-venous-system-new-pathophysiological-theories-and-diseases-related-to-veins-occlusion/11159/2): > > Good article. There is one pathway that is gaining popularity on how long term obstruction of Venous Outflow can contribute to development of serious neurodegenerative diseases and that is Glymphatic system. Here is very interesting article about it ([The glymphatic pathway in neurological disorders.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6261373/#:~:text=The%20glial-lymphatic%20or%20glymphaticpathway%20is%20a%20fluid%20clearance,brain%20interstitium%20facilitated%20by%20aquaporin-4%20%28AQP4%29%20water%20channels)) ---
**Author:** ![coldbear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e7dd6/32.png) [@coldbear](https://forum.livingwitheagle.org/u/coldbear)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2022, 5:24pm UTC](https://forum.livingwitheagle.org/t/warning-graphic-visual-information-ijv-compression-another-point-of-view/9579/56 "2022-06-13T17:24:01Z")
Itā€™s worth reading a bit more about the CCSVI controversy if you are interested in these issues: > **[Scientist concedes his controversial MS therapy, once a source of great hope,...](https://www.statnews.com/2017/11/28/multiple-sclerosis-paolo-zamboni/)** > > Paolo Zamboni has publicly concluded that a therapy he developed and dubbed ā€œthe liberation treatmentā€ does not cure or mitigate the symptoms of MS. > **[Chronic cerebrospinal venous insufficiency controversy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_cerebrospinal_venous_insufficiency_controversy)** > > Chronic cerebrospinal venous insufficiency (CCSVI or CCVI) is a term invented by Italian researcher Paolo Zamboni in 2008 to describe compromised flow of blood in the veins draining the central nervous system. Zamboni hypothesized that it might play a role in the cause or development of multiple sclerosis (MS). Zamboni also devised a surgical procedure which the media nicknamed a liberation procedure or liberation therapy, involving venoplasty or stenting of certain veins. Zamboni' There is no ... Since Zamboni published his theory, almost every study designed to probe the relationship between MS and venous insufficiency has found no link whatsoever. I have no intention of wading into any of these debates, but it is a lesson about how chasing unproven theories prematurely can cause tangible harm to patients. The original theory sounded plausible and intuitive, so patients caused an uproar until clinical trials were funded without sufficient basic research having been done first. Since these trials failed in Canada, it has caused such a backlash from physicians that now Canadian patients with non-MS jugular issues basically have no one willing to evaluate and treat these issues. ---
**Author:** ![Samom.4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Samom.4](https://forum.livingwitheagle.org/u/Samom.4)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2022, 3:07am UTC](https://forum.livingwitheagle.org/t/warning-graphic-visual-information-ijv-compression-another-point-of-view/9579/57 "2022-06-14T03:07:18Z")
Such good advice. My husband is having a revision surgery this wk with Hepworth where the jugular did not open with prior styloid removal. Working with a neurosurgeon they will not close without seeing and measuring flow. ---
**Author:** ![Jules](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex027/user_avatar/forum.livingwitheagle.org/jules/32/404_2.png) [@Jules](https://forum.livingwitheagle.org/u/Jules)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2022, 4:24pm UTC](https://forum.livingwitheagle.org/t/warning-graphic-visual-information-ijv-compression-another-point-of-view/9579/58 "2022-06-14T16:24:40Z")
I hope that his revision surgery goes well, will be thinking of you both šŸ¤— šŸ™ ---
**Author:** ![Isaiah\_40\_31](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex027/user_avatar/forum.livingwitheagle.org/isaiah_40_31/32/3054_2.png) [@Isaiah\_40\_31](https://forum.livingwitheagle.org/u/Isaiah_40_31)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2022, 5:06am UTC](https://forum.livingwitheagle.org/t/warning-graphic-visual-information-ijv-compression-another-point-of-view/9579/59 "2022-06-15T05:06:04Z")
Thank you for the update, @Samom.4. Iā€™m so glad surgery is set & your husband will be getting the help heā€™s long needed. I will be praying for you, your husband, Dr. Hepworth & the neurosurgeon involved in this surgery. I hope this restores your husbandā€™s vitality & _joie de vivre_. ā¤ šŸ¤— šŸ™ ---
**Author:** ![Bc2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/58f4c7/32.png) [@Bc2](https://forum.livingwitheagle.org/u/Bc2)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2022, 12:42am UTC](https://forum.livingwitheagle.org/t/warning-graphic-visual-information-ijv-compression-another-point-of-view/9579/60 "2022-06-22T00:42:18Z")
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