It’s funny because I had a telephone virtual consult with Middleton and he totally ruled out an venous eagle syndrome
But my right jugular is clearly compressed
Communication with him via text message she’s a very nice guy and he agrees taking out my styloid will probably help Even though he didn’t really bring it up at all, and when I press the issue, he really said I had no issue with that in our meeting
Mine are not abnormally long. I have them calcified lesions and I think it’s tricky to tell what’s really going on.
Atlas orthogonal adjustments have made a number of our members’ symptoms worse, but they have also helped a few. I’m sorry you’re in the first group, @Deanm.
I had been tortured with so many other treatments that I was incredibly skeptical of adjustments. We only went to obtain that scan. My atlas was actually in alignment and he made a “micro” adjustment. It actually did relieve the pain behind my head but flared up other symptoms. He told me I was a “princess and pea” situation. Which makes sense given what Dr. Osborne found. He offered other adjustments that I declined and stressed the prolotherapy. Even after obtaining theses scans I couldn’t get Drs to believe me. Thankfully I am very close with an ENT who shared my findings and gave me a confident answer. But here in Texas no one does routine styloidectomies and I was terrified to trust someone inexperienced. Here are the photos of my styloids with size. If not allowed please remove. (( Yes, DOB is incorrect) Long was 3.5cm short 3 but was very THICK…
IDK how to share photos
At the end of the day OSSIFCATION on a flexible ligament AKA your neck is NOT NORMAL, no matter what people say and how “asymptomatic” it can be for others. It was very clear I had a foreign body in my neck and it needed to go.
I’m sorry you went through that… I was headed down that exact path. To my understanding that procedure has been questioned by many providers for some time.
@vcp02 - You can share photos by dragging & dropping them from your computer desktop into the text box where you type your post or uploading them from your computer using the underlined up arrow in the menu at the top of the text box.
Please remove your personal information (name/birthdate, etc) from the images before you post them.
Right side was broken and taken off in pieces due to how tight things were. Dr. stated he didn’t have much space for his own instruments during the removal . All of the nerve pain was from the right side. Left side was much longer and leaner. Caused on my vascular issues.
- Past noted improvements, have only gotten better.
Residual symptoms
-Tinnitus- VERY MUCH STILL THERE. Almost deafening now. My husband feels that since my pains gone, I can now focus on other things. Which make sense. I will practice my patience and take the blessing of no pain. (Read somewhere that high pitched tinnitus correlated to nerve damage as opposed to pulsatile tinnitus with the vascular system. Nerve damage was much less likely to resolve depending on onset of duration…. Keeping fingers crossed!!!)
-Jaw tension and clicking- This just drastically improved within the last week or so. Currently undergoing ALF treatment for past trauma done with my mouth guard and Botox treatments. This will be a 3-year journey of recovery. Turns out all the TMJ treatments only caused more mis-alignment and pain.
-Temporal scalp tenderness/burning… similar to what a neuralgia would feel like- I am now learning to hear my body when she talks to me. When I overdo it, pain will be persistent. I try to control excess head rotation and it resolves.
-Shoulder pain- I decided to push though the pain and get started with Pilates to help strengthen my shoulder. It’s been a full month of PT and my pain has improved substantially. I plan on continue this strengthen. (Had other issues with this shoulder needing a scapular thoracic bursectomy- (+) Scoliosis)
-Ear scar- Isn’t so elevated… little things don’t matter so much anymore.
***Few bad days, but they didn’t outweigh the good days. <3
@vcp02 - Thank you for the very positive update. I’m sorry about your tinnitus though. I’d heard via a Youtube video that Dr. Amans did that in his opinion, high pitched tinnitus can be from arterial compression where lower pitched tinnitus can be from venous compression. I’ve had tinnitus for nearly my whole life so your idea that it is nerve related makes more sense to me. Regardless of the cause, I hope that with more recovery time, your tinnitus will gradually fade away along with your other remaining symptoms.
Listening to your body as you noted is the best way to aid it in recovery. I suspect your scalp burning/tenderness will gradually fade away over the next 6+ months or sooner as will your shoulder pain. The positive turn away from being symptomatic that your jaw has taken in the last week or so, is evidence that your body is working hard to help you feel better. Step by step you’ll regain your life.
Nerve damage/irritation that has been present for quite a while (years vs months) will take longer to recover, but is not necessarily permanent. We’ve had members on our forum who’ve been symptomatic for 10 or more years who’ve had good symptoms resolution after surgery.
I’m glad that things are improving for you- sadly tinnitus does seem to be one symptom which often doesn’t resolve, but hopefully your shoulder & scalp tenderness will ease. Hugs & prayers
Question the local doctor ent called today said my styloid process is 4.6 cm on left where I have problem and 6.0 cm on right where I don’t. Do those measurements appear accurate to you that sounds extremely long compared to 2.5 cm? Can you tell if the bone is short by my images and maybe he is measuring everything to the end of calcification?
@musclecarguy - 4.6 cm is moderately elongated but 6 cm is quite long. We can’t emphasize enough on this forum that the length of a styloid may not be involved in the symptoms it causes as much as its other features which are sometimes the trouble makers i.e. thickness of the bone, how curved it is, how angled it’s growing, is it twisted, very pointed, does it have bony outgrowths coming off of it, etc.
Your shorter styloid is quite curved which is likely why it’s causing worse symptoms. Often both styloids are causing symptoms but one is causing the worst ones so that’s the one we tend to blame for all symptoms. Once the more symptomatic styloid is removed, any symptoms that remain are commonly being caused by the remaining styloid.
The full length of the calcification is usually what is measured especially if there are no gaps between styloid & an adjacent section of calcified ligament. When the styloid & calcified ligament are only separated by tiny spaces, that grouping is also sometimes measured as one unit.
@musclecarguy your styloids are normal length (they are actually so short they aren’t even visible) but you have calcified stylohyoid ligaments. They aren’t the same thing and I’m surprised (and not at the same time) that the ENT said your styloids are elongated when your styloids are almost not existent.
@musclecarguy - AHA! The report said stylohyoid ligaments. It’s true that some doctors refer to elongated styloids as “elongated stylohyoid ligaments” which is true in some cases but not in every case. I had one styloid that was truly elongated all on its own, apart from the stylohyoid ligament & the other was elongated along the stylohyoid ligament which meant the ligament had calcified starting at the tip of my styloid thus making the styloid appear to be elongated.
In your case, as @TML said, you only have calcification on your ligaments which is separate from your styloids but the calcification on each side plenty long enough to be causing the symptoms you have.
So I had a zoom call today with Dr Ryan Osbourne. He reviewed my ct 3d scan said that he feels my calcification is most likely causing my recent throat ache and tongue issues on left side. Said my anxiety is making it worse but it’s def real and not mental. He said it won’t go away and more likely continue to get worse. As I get older 63 no one will want to operate as it gets worse. My problem is I’m so phobic about surgery change in the throat if any and feeling something new would freak me out worse. But right now I’m not functioning well do to feeling in throat. It was very informative and I will take that info to Dr Cognetti in Dec. can people share there experience post surgery as detailed as possible for someone that will find something to focus on that seems different. What will I expect that night and a few weeks after??. Thanks I don’t know what to do?
Typically, post op, you’ll have a very sore throat for 2-3 days because a breathing tube is inserted after you are asleep & oxygen is administered throughout the procedure. Your neck will be sore from the incision, but you may notice reduction of your current throat symptoms soon after you wake up from surgery. If not, those symptoms will gradually disappear over the course of several months post op. During healing, the symptoms can come & go i.e. healing can be a bit of a roller coaster but eventually the symptoms will go for good or at least be significantly reduced once the affected nerves recover.
The first week post op is the most uncomfortable. Sleeping with your head/shoulders significantly elevated (30º has been suggested) & icing your neck for 15 min every couple of hours helps reduce neck & throat inflammation. By the end of the second week, the worst of the pain has gone & some symptoms may be reduced. Post op swelling can take 6-8 weeks to fully resolve, & as long as there’s swelling, there can still be some pressure on the nerves which is why they sometimes continue to cause symptoms for a while.
There have been incidents of nerve recovery, & thus symptoms reduction/full relief, that have taken up to a year to occur because irritated nerves can be slow to heal; however, most people feel significantly better by 2-3 months after surgery & sometimes sooner.
I didn’t notice any change in my throat or swallowing especially, which was what I was very concerned about post-surgery. But it does vary depending on the surgeon’s technique, and the position of the styloids; if the styloids are aggravating a particular nerve, then removing them will irritate that nerve, so sometimes symptoms disappear straight after surgery, and sometimes the nerve can be grumpy & that symptom can seem a little worse afterwards, but it does settle down. Lots of surgeons monitor the nerves during surgery to ensure they’re not being stretched too much. As long as you have an experienced surgeon, then the risks of any nerve damage are lessened…
After surgery it’s common for your neck to be stiff, & uncomfortable to turn it sometimes. Opening your mouth wide is often difficult, and chewing too, so we suggest getting smoothies or soft foods ready in case. (I had this after my first surgery, but not after my second, so it does vary!) Numbness around your jaw , ears or chin can be common, this gradually comes back. And another common thing after surgery is first bite syndrome- it’s caused by nerves to the parotid gland being irritated, and it caused a sharp pain in the cheek when you go to eat, but again, this lessens with time.
In all honesty, we can’t say that you’ll wake up symptom free as this doesn’t always happen, and you may find that you do have one of the new nerve issues/ sensations I’ve mentioned, but they do improve with time, & the majority of us who have had the surgery feel it’s worth it to get rid of the ES symptoms. But you will need patience!
