A 3 year roller coaster

Greetings to all…

I have received such a kind welcome, read several posts and guides, and am learning so much already. I have hopefully captured the most relevant 3d images from my recent CTA with venogram protocol using Radiant and will share those here.

My symptoms began over 3 years ago and I have been on quite the roller coaster since. I have received multiple diagnoses. There are still other diagnoses I suspect, but are unconfirmed so far. I had a relatively pain-free life prior to the start of all this, which I am grateful for.

My first alarming symptoms began in March of 2022, seemingly out of nowhere in my sleep one night. There was no precipitating event. Then began a cascade of more symptoms that unfolded over the next several months. I have seen many specialists and had an abundance of testing. Everything scary has been ruled out. Here is where things stand currently. The only head/neck imaging findings have been “Marked developmental hypoplasia of the right transverse and sigmoid sinuses” and a “non-symptomatic congenital small right internal carotid artery web.”

Left-sided Thoracic Outlet Syndrome - diagnosed by vascular, managed initially with PT, and continued conservative management via avoidance of aggravating positions and maneuvers. I sleep on an incline on my right side with my left arm wrapped around a pillow in front of me. This has probably helped my TOS the most.

Left-sided joint pain in my left knee, foot, elbow, hand. Worst at night. Helped by taking a Boswellia supplement daily. Inflammation blood markers were negative two years ago. I was also tested then for Sjogren’s antibodies, which were negative. I have recently requested updated testing and a rheumatology referral.

Suspected Non-length dependent Small Fiber Neuropathy - I have altered sensation on the entire left side of my body… it is slightly numb from head to toe. Normal EMG’s. No signs of MS. The slight numbness doesn’t bother me much and I haven’t pursued confirmation via skin punch biopsy yet. I also get left-sided burning nerve pain at night. The daily boswellia taken for joint pain also seems to help with the burning pain.

Constant chronic pain in the back of my head and neck. Head pressure, worsened when laying flat. Tenderness in the back of my head aggravated by even the softest of pillows. I had a lumbar puncture 2 years ago with an opening pressure of 23, not quite IIH, but still elevated (normal is considered below 20). No papilledema and no other signs of IIH on MRI. I had injections diagnostic of Occipital Neuralgia, unfortunately only the few hours of lidocaine helped, but the steroid did not. Neither physical therapy nor dry needling helped. Finally tried Dandelion root (a mild diuretic) and found significant relief, though not full relief. Lidocaine roll-on does help my neck also. Ice helps as needed. Sometimes heat as well. Sometimes Tylenol but I try not to take it more than a few times per week. Edit: And now aspirin (which I accidentally discovered, see the section about May-Thurner Syndrome below). I also just thought to add something else about my head/neck pain… My symptoms worsen when looking down in neck flexion. Neck extension sometimes provides relief. My symptoms also worsen when my head is in a static position for long, like using the computer, attending a performance where the audience is expected to be still, sleeping, etc. My symptoms improve when I’m walking or exercising, staying active in some way, although if I overdo my activity, I also pay for that later.

May-Thurner Syndrome and pelvic congestion syndrome. Received a left iliac vein stent for 88% compression this January. This has relieved chronic groin pain on the left and right, chronic lower back pain, and chronic pelvic heaviness. Starting the day of my stent, my head and neck pain were also gone. Unfortunately I found out it was the post-stent blood thinners that were helping my head/neck, and not the stent itself. I couldn’t tolerate Eliquis (it was tanking my blood pressure) so was dropped to 325 mg aspirin. A month later I was cleared to drop to baby aspirin. Soon my head/neck pain were back in full force. This discovery prompted my most recent imaging. Then went back to dandelion root which wasn’t helping for a while. Got cleared to increase the aspirin dose back up, so went to 3 baby aspirins/day. It did help, but seems to have lost some effectiveness. Currently trialing both dandelion root + 2-3 baby aspirin. Seems to be more effective than one or the other, but still not great.

Dull achy lower jaw pain - this is more recent for me. Started in late April, is not constant. Lidocaine roll-on helps.

After learning more about Eagle Syndrome anatomy, the hyoid bone, etc, I have been palpating areas under my lower jaw. There are a few tender spots, I haven’t figured out what they are. Possibly salivary glands, but one seems too low for that. The most acute tenderness is a spot left of center seemlingly near hyoid level.

Lastly, I have had pulsatile tinnitus during sleep at times. It has come on for weeks on end in one ear, then nothing for a while, then in both ears for weeks, then nothing again. I do not seem to be having it for the last couple months.

Okay, now for my images. I know I have segmented calcified stylohyoid ligaments. I believe the right one is touching my external carotid artery, or is that a different vessel? I believe the right side of my hyoid is also touching vessels. The supposed developmental hypoplasia of my left jugular apparently causes it to “disappear” when contrast is used. My right jugular does narrow some at C1 and then widen again, but I guess not enough for a radiologist to care? And I believe I have collateral vessels on the left, which looks quite different from the right side.

I am so curious to hear your opinions. From my reading here so far, you are all incredibly knowledgeable and helpful. I greatly appreciate any insight you’re able to provide. Thank you!

Both calcified ligaments

right jugular with contrast

right jugular without contrast

left calcified ligament with contrast “missing” jugular

left jugular without contrast

back of head with contrast

right hyoid view

left hyoid view

hyoid from above

hyoid from below

@Lyndsay - Thank you for sharing your story with us. I’m sorry you’ve had to deal w/ May Thurner Syndrome as well as ES. We have been told that in some cases, people w/ IJV compression also have vascular compressions elsewhere in the body. I know we have at least one other member who has been treated for May Thurner & several who’ve been diagnosed with & possibly treated for Nutcracker Syndrome.

I’m glad you’ve found some natural supplements that have been helpful in reducing your symptoms. You’ve been resourceful in figuring out what works best for you!

I suspect that your left sided joint pain isn’t related to ES, but we have had members who had similar pain on one side & said it went away after having their styloid(s) removed. I can’t tell you how it was connected though.

You mentioned getting tested for Sjögren’s. A dry mouth or excessive saliva can be an ES symptom & is related to irritation of the glossopharyngeal nerve (GPN) by the styloid. Occipital neuralgia (caused by the occipital nerve) is also fairly common w/ ES. Neck extension most likely helps as it reduces the contact of your styloids/calcified s-h ligaments w/ the nerves they’re irritating. I’m sorry the steroid injection you tried didn’t give you relief.

You’re a jump ahead in having found aspirin helps relieve your head pain as some of the vascular ES surgeons on our Doctors List Rx a blood thinner such as Plavix, Brillinta or Xarelto for their patients w/ IJV compression while they await their surgery dates. The thinned blood flows more willingly through the compressed areas of the IJVs which helps relieve the pressure & pain caused due to the compression. You can also help yourself by moving your computer screen up to eye level (I use a stack of books - very sophisticated :joy:), holding your cell phone at eye level when you use it & when reading try to hold or prop your reading material at eye level. That will help keep your neck more neutral which may help reduce your symptoms when you’re in a static position for some time. Gentle exercise helps increase circulation so as long as you’re keeping it at a level that doesn’t increase symptoms, it can be helpful.

The dull ache in your jaw is likely related to your trigeminal nerve (TN). It’s pretty extensive in the face & can cause ear, jaw, tooth, sinus, headache, eye, nose, & sinus pain. Along w/ the GPN, the TN is one of the most common nerves irritated by the styloids.

Your images are really good. What I see is your ligament calcification fairly minimal, & your styloids don’t look especially long, however, I can see that your right & left IJVs have some compression. The right side looks like it may be up close to the skull base which means your styloid could be very angled or thick up where it attaches. The left side could be from C1. I see the collateral veins on the left. They’ve probably developed to compensate for your diminutive left IJV.

Your hyoid looks like it’s tangling w/ your ECA on both sides, but due to the angle of the image it’s hard to tell for sure i.e. the greater horns could be sitting behind the ECAs. The overhead & underneath views of the hyoid are interesting as the shapes of its greater horns are quite different from left to right w/ the right side definitely looking to be in contact w/ vascular tissues. The greater horns are also somewhat thick.

I also noticed you’ve lost the lordotic curve in your cervical spine. This seems to be a pretty common situation among our members. When the curve is gone from the cervical spine the styloids are moved into a position where they can have greater contact w/ nerves & vascular tissues & thus are more apt to cause symptoms. The straightening of the cervical spine could also allow the greater horns of the hyoid to come into closer contact w/ the cervical spine & vascular/nerve tissues in the neck.
Restoring the curve is possible w/ gentle neck exercises & PT but can take some time. There is also a neck orthotic that’s available online called a Denneroll which can be used at home - https://www.denneroll.com/cervical-combination-order.

Contacting Dr. Nakaji in Phoenix would possibly be a good place to start, as he does IJV decompression surgery, however, I doubt he would help w/ your hyoid. Dr. Karuna Dewan in Louisiana specializes in hyoid bone surgeries so it might be worthwhile consulting w/ her. Unfortunately, neither of those doctors do virtual initial consults.

•Dr. Peter Nakaji, https://www.scottsdaleclinic.com
Scottsdale Neurosurgery Specialists - 602-313-7772

•Dr. Karuna Dewan, Ochsner LSU Health Shreveport - Academic Medical Center - Specializes in Hyoid Bone Syndrome surgeries
1541 Kings Hwy, Shreveport, Louisiana, 1-318-626-0050

Needs a PCP referral

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Hi @Lyndsay,

I was wondering if you had the CT without contrast also. It would be helpful to see the styloid process, calcified ligaments and hyoid bone with the blood vessels out of the way. They are hard to see on your images above. You did a great job trimming, but sometimes when trimming you can remove areas accidently that you need to see. So if you have a non contrast image, looking in from the posterior angle of the mandible for the styloid and hyoid before trimming that would be great. And then trim away to get a better view of the intered areas. Thanks.

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It doesn’t look so much like the styloids are compressing the IJV, there would normally be a much smaller gap between the C1 & styloid, unless as @Isaiah_40_31 says the styloid is really wide right at the skull base…it might be that there’s a muscle or other soft tissue compressing it? Members have found sometimes the IJV being compressed by the SCM muscle, digastric muscle, omahyoid muscle, and sometimes other blood vessels or nerves…
And I agree that your hyoid processes look pretty thick so could be causing symptoms too…

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@Isaiah_40_31 Thank you sooooooo much for taking the time to share your abundance of knowledge and helpful suggestions for me in such great detail. I truly appreciate your kindness.

I wanted to mention that I do have my computer monitor positioned at eye level and I do make sure to hold my phone up to eye level, etc. Looking even slightly down for more than a minute is awful for me so I avoid it as much as possible. However, even with my head in a static neutral position looking straight ahead, my symptoms still worsen the longer I go without moving.

I can see what you are saying about my loss of spine curvature. Thank you for the link to the Dennerol, I am going to explore that further. What’s strange to me is I have gone through physical therapy twice, once for my thoracic outlet syndrome which included a focus on my neck, and once for occipital neuralgia with focus on my neck, and neither practitioner ever mentioned the loss of curve or how to correct it. I have good flexibility and range of motion, and unfortunately none of their prescribed exercises ever helped.

Is it possible to improve jugular venous outflow with restoration of the cervical curve?

I am going to try to post some axial slices as well as a closer 3d look at the styloid process, which will maybe shed more light on the extent of my right jugular compression and possible causes.

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@Rex @Jules @Isaiah_40_31 Your input is all so helpful, thank you!

I have just taken a couple mp4 video clips from Radiant and am wondering if there might be a way to share those here?

Edit: I figured out how to upload them to youtube. I’m hoping it will let me post them here.

This first link is a clip from my CT in axial view starting below the jugular narrowing and ending above it. https://youtu.be/y82XeEXf5cY

This second link is a 3d CT clip with close-up angles of my right jugular, C1, and styloids. https://youtu.be/mCkZ43e2HLk

Hi @ Lyndsay. It hard for me to read the regular CT moving.
The right 3 D CT shows the segmented calcified ligament and the styloid appears to be normal. I think there is compression more from the C-1 transverse process and some from the calcified ligament. Maybe compreesion by stloid up higher but cannot see with this view to be sure. Cannot see down to the hyoid. Hope this helps a little. Worth getting checked out.

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@Lyndsay - [quote=“Lyndsay, post:6, topic:19591”]
am wondering if there might be a way to share those here?
[/quote]

You should be able to upload videos into your posts the same way you upload still pictures, but I am not totally certain that is the case.

I’m sorry but looking at CT slices isn’t my forté. I’m a 3D image gal. In your second video, it looks to me like your styloid may be compressing your IJV against some part of the skull base. C1, though close to the IJV, doesn’t look like it’s participating much in the compression in the video you posted though that could change if your head wasn’t in neutral, plus, the IJV looks a bit flattened adjacent to C1 which also is a case for C1 being a participant. It would be helpful to see your hyoid bone. Do you have any images that show it in 3D as it can also be partial cause of some symptoms.

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I’m sorry, I’ve found it difficult to look properly with the images moving too…I agree that it’s worth looking into further though!

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@Rex @Isaiah_40_31 @Jules Thank you all again for looking at those videos and sharing your input. :folded_hands: :smiley:

Something just dawned on me. Due to my left-sided thoracic outlet syndrome and occipital neuralgia, I sleep most of every night on my right side. It seems that position could certainly be compressing my right jugular against my c1, correct? Could finding a way to sleep on my left side possibly be a good enough remedy to reduce most of my head/neck symptoms? I know there are pillow symptoms for shoulder relief that may allow me to try this. :crossed_fingers: