A Canadian's Journey: VES Surgery in Türkiye Dec. 10

Hi all,
First and foremost, THANK YOU to everyone who provided advice and support. @Isaiah_40_31, your advice and compassion has been a guiding light since the start of JC’s diagnosis. For that, thank you from the bottom of my heart.

I’m going to write everything into this post, and update it going forward. I hope it will act as a guide for those who feel they cannot get support in their own country.

JC has been VES symptomatic for many years and was undiagnosed. He has a diagnosis of long covid, polyneuropathy and debilitating TMJ, so many of his VES symptoms were disguised. Despite 10-15 various imaging scans since 2020, none of them picked up his styloids (6cm/5cm) until they were discovered as an “incidental finding” in August 2024, but this was not flagged by doctors or communicated as a potential reason for concern.

We are from Vancouver, Canada. In September 2024, JC and I were in Türkiye. My mom (a Canadian expat living in Türkiye) had been diagnosed with cancer and we were there to visit and support her during her surgical recovery. On that trip, JC had an explosion of pain in his face, and given the medical system is pay-to-play, we took the opportunity for more scans and doctors appointments. JC was diagnosed with ES and told he needed surgery.

I joined this group, and @Isaiah_40_31 said we should consider staying in Türkiye because Canadians have very little access to support at home. I wish we listened. It would have saved so much time and money. Upon returning to Vancouver, I have emailed a dozen surgeons in British Columbia, and none are familiar with the surgery. We did a virtual consult with Dr. Osborne ($250 USD), and his surgery was ~$67,000 (USD) or $91,000 CAD (for both sides done in the same week). Others have reported similar out-of-pocket costs, with the exception of Dr. Cognetti, who has a 4 month consultation waitlist ($8000USD + $12,500 for vascular for one side, only does 1 side at a time).

I won’t name names, but several people have been generous with their time and provided me with information about their experience with Dr. Kamran Aghayev in Istanbul, Turkey. Dr. Kamran is a neurosurgeon and has a sub-specialty with the spine. This is especially important because JC has minor ligament laxity in his C0-C2. Dr. Kamran has the experience and knowledge to complete the styloidectomy, vascular decompression, C1 shave (if deemed vital for a successful surgery).

This is happening fast. JC was diagnosed in late September, and here we are booked to go back to Türkiye, arriving on December 6 and surgery on December 10. However, this diagnosis was like an ah ha! for him, and it seems critical to have the styloids removed so that he can move onto other rehab.

The flights are the most expensive item for us, except for the surgery itself. So that other people understand the costs of overseas medical, this is what we’re facing:
Flights: $5100 CAD (includes emergency exit upgrades for more room/comfort, and flexible return ticket). Keep in mind that Vancouver - Istanbul is a 12 hour flight. It wouldn’t cost as much if you live further east.

Accommodation: $3400 CAD (for 5 weeks in a beautiful first class 2-bedroom apartment)

Surgery: $15,000 USD (bilateral removal, vein decompression, C1 shave, VIP room [with space for me]) This could change depending on the scope of the surgery.

I think all in, this trip is going to be about $35,000 Canadian, so less than half the price of Dr. Osborne’s surgical cost (not including flight/accommodation). We’ve opted to stay longer to resolve any complications, have multiple follow ups, and a CTV at the 4th week to ensure the jugular vein is flowing freely. Not to mention, to have Christmas and New Year’s with my mom. With a bit of luck, we’ll ring in the New Year celebrating both health and happiness.

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For those who are interested… here are some visuals from the CTV. Right is measured at 6cm, left is measured at 5cm. I have also linked to the DICOM library.

https://www.dicomlibrary.com?study=1.3.6.1.4.1.44316.6.102.1.2024101710573969.255647863848373741548



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As always, your post is informational & articulate, @Val7426. I’m sure JC & you are thankful to have made the decision regarding whom to see for surgery. What an amazing, tireless support you’ve been for him. The upcoming surgery date is also excellent as it’s not too far in the future - only a little more than a month away!

Even though your husband will be recently post op, I’m sure your presence with your mom at Christmas & the New Year will be a huge blessing to her. I’m sorry she’s dealing with a cancer diagnosis but will pray for complete remission of her cancer & symptoms. I hope her surgery makes a big difference in how she’s feeling.

Thank you for sharing the financial aspects of your journey as those will be helpful for others traveling from CA or places in Europe/Asia if they’re seeing Dr. Aghayev. I will be praying for the best possible outcome for JC and for you both to have a time of respite from the activities of daily life while you’re there. That will give him the best start at recovery.

I’m sending you both a hug for encouragement & healing :hugs:, & of course, sending up prayers for you. :pray:

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I cant figure out if non vascular ES people just dont come to this site lately or is it VES are more likely to seek treatment because symptoms more severe or does it just come in waves.

Seems like a lot of VES patients for such a rare disease…especially since some surgeons dont even believe it exists.

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In your last picture there appears to be an object being trapped by the styloid in front of the jugular. Did they tell you what that is? Some kind of artery, vein, etc.The name of it might provide clues for other people . It would seem it might cause issues. Maybe it free floats across the surface of the styloid as it is being pushed. You can see it on the opposite side as well . Looks like being pushed more on opposite side

This might be the same thing that wraps around my right styloid

His styloids are so long. I really just cant imagine how many true sufferers there have been for decades with no clue . The more I see the more I think this is just not as rare as we are lead to believe

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@Val7426 , I’m so pleased that you’ve been able to find a surgeon and arrange all this, plus the bonus of Christmas with your Mum! I’ll join in with @Isaiah_40_31 in praying for you all…
Thank you for all the info, we get asked lots about surgical costs so it’s helpful to know.
Crazy that nobody thought to mention 6cm spikes in your husband’s neck :woman_facepalming:
@JugularEagle , we’ve been saying for a long time that we think ES is very much under diagnosed and not that rare! I think with Dr Google it’s enabling people to find answers for their medical issues now whereas in the past people were in the dark and having to put their faith in ignorant doctors! It would be lovely if the research about how rare ES is, & how many people who have elongated styloids but are supposedly asymptomatic could be redone, there’s more awareness now amongst some doctors with what symptoms ES can cause, but still not enough…
I don’t know if the rise in members with VES is down to the same, being able to get more info online, but definitely we’re seeing many more members with vascular symptoms. When @Isaiah_40_31 & I first joined, there were very few members with VES. There’s certainly more treatment options now too. I had nerve pain initially when I was diagnosed, so opted not to have surgery as it was manageable, but when I got VES symptoms later & was starting to feel pretty rough I decided I definitely needed surgery…maybe as you say those with less intense symptoms aren’t pursuing surgery , Idk…

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I can’t really offer you much help as I am very new to this; but glad to hear things are moving quickly and I wish you the best!

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I was kind of shocked at how much Chat AI program helped one poster. I don’t know how much of that blurb was accurate but the things I know of seemed pretty accurate to me.

I have some kind of AI enabled on Google so a search brings up things you might not get otherwise.

It seems many people come and go here and get on with their lives now that they have it back after surgery. So it is great that there are a few of you that stick around to help every day those new to the nightmare.

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Hello I am a Canadian living in Alberta and my story is very similar - I have also been diagnosed with debilitating TMJ but a dentist noticed my long styloids in one of my various scans. No one seems to know about or believe I have eagle syndrome - I just want to confirm the eagle syndrome diagnosis was made in Turkey. Looking for any information/help I can get. Thanks

@RosemaryE Hey there, so it’s a bit of a multi-chapter story.

JC went to urgent care in Vancouver in August because of neck pain, choking sensation, headache, TMJ, blah blah. He’d just had Covid, again, and that prompted them to check him for meningitis. They did a CTV, and it showed no signs of meningitis (aka the red herring), so they sent him home with some T3s and called it a job well done.

In Türkiye, he was in so so so much pain. Every day he was on YouTube and researching what the cause might be. We booked him in with a neurologist to discuss his nerve pain, and had to get a copy of the CT report in advance of the consultation. Right there, smack in the middle of the CT report, was “incidental finding of bilateral styloid elongation and bilateral calcification of the styloid ligament”. It was right there all along, and no one put the pieces together. So now we had something new to chase down.

We took the report to the neurologist, who never heard of the condition. Then we went to a local ENT who knew of the condition and had diagnosed one case in his 30 year career. He gloved up, stuck his finger in JC’s mouth, and could feel the styloid. He said if he could feel the bone, it was likely 4cm+. He said he didn’t know how to do the surgery but recommended another person. We rented a car, drove to Antalya, where he got a new CTV and had the styloids measured (6cm right, 5cm left). The ENT there reconfirmed the diagnosis and said surgery was necessary. He’d performed ~10 removals in the past. JC didn’t want neck surgery on a whim (it was such a new discovery) and shelved the idea until we got home to Vancouver. We were warned that we wouldn’t get traction here, but for some reason we thought he’d prevail where others did not. Wrong!

We have been told Türkiye produces the second highest volume of scientific literature on this condition. If that’s true, it would explain why so many doctors at least know about the condition. We found 3 surgeons there who felt comfortable doing the procedure (2 in Istanbul, 1 in Antalya, and I believe there are 2 more in Ankara).

Through this forum we learned of Dr. Kamran in Istanbul. He’s been very generous with his time. He reviewed the scans and we had a 40 minute phone call with him (free of charge).

My recommendation is this… ask your dentist if he did a Cone Beam CT scan. It can be 3D modeled so you can see the bones. If it wasn’t cone beam, ask your GP to order a CTV of the area and then order a copy of the imaging from the hospital. There’s free software you can download to capture it in 3D format. It was hard to get anyone interested in JC’s case, until we had the 3D model. Then all of a sudden people were like “look at those styloids!” like he was Frankenstein’s monster. Worst case scenario, go to urgent care and grasp your throat saying “I can’t swallow! I am being strangled! Help! Help! I need a CTV” and just get it done however you have to. I know here the queue for a CTV can be months, not too sure about AB.

Also, we were able to get a virtual consultation with Dr. Ryan Osborne in California for $250 USD. It took about 10 days, we sent him the imaging in advance. For the money, it was worth seeing him and getting another opinion. It’s my understanding that he often dismisses ES cases, which is unfortunate but for us was almost reassuring because when he said JC needs surgery it seemed legit (and not pushing surgery as a sales tactic).

I hope this helps. It’s long winded, but I’m trying to capture the whole story. Feel free to connect if you have more questions.

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@RosemaryE - TMJ type symptoms can be the result of nerves elongated styloids are irritating. We have had members who spent thousands of dollars on TMJ therapies, dental appliances, etc., with no results but once their styloids were removed, the TMJ symptoms decreased or disappeared. The trigeminal nerve is one of the primary nerves causing TMJ symptoms. It’s also one of the nerves most commonly irritated by elongated styloids.

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Thank you - I have spent about $5,000 on my jaw joints only to be told by an oral surgeon that it is not my jaw joints causing the pain. I was told by one of my dental specialists in passing - no big deal that I had calcification in the right side of my neck. After making a big deal I had a head and neck CT-scan on Friday and am waiting for the results. This whole process has been two years of pain.

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I’m sorry you’ve been suffering for so long @RosemaryE, and good for you for making a big deal so you could get the CT scan you need! I hope the results of your scan allow you to move forward with whatever the next steps are you think will be most helpful.

Hi

I am in hospital just now myself, but wanted to share some quick info with you now I know will help you.

To aid scar healing and post operative recovery PLEASE contact Vodder (body for Trained lymphatic nurses) now before ops. They have offices in Vancover (will try to attach
Image).

If possible locate a therapist who has a Hivamat 200 deep oscillation machine to use. In UK you can find out about them on physiopod website. Its made in Germany. Agents selling machine differ by country. Makes HUGE difference to scars, fluid, healing etc. in UK you can hire, buy or be trained to use machine on self or lovrd ones.

Do look at scar healing stuff now snd have it ready for use. I hsve used CICA gel, bio oil, but other tips on this site.

Do go on Comfiwave compression garments website (Haddenhams in UK) snd get correct size of neck compression device. They are very comfortable to wear, easy to pack, can be machine washed & low tumble dryed. Mine has lasted over 6 months. Will reduce swelling. Highly recommend.

Final tip- get Viatom ring on Amazon to use. If oxy is going down & pulse is
going up- be careful. If oxy is going up and pulse is falling its helping reduce trapped fluid. Setting vibration alarm levels will reassure/alert you if issues to stop & look at.

If your mum has cancer you will find lots of help from Vodder etc for her here too. Goid luck! D :crossed_fingers:

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Image on Vodder Canade. Soz for typos. D

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Do sleep quite upright post op(or generally until fixed), it helps head to drain, lying flat does not. Others suggest pillows etc on here. Avoid covid or other respiratory infections- it makes things much worse. D

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So frustrating for you! I hope that the CT shows what’s causing your problem, if you can get a copy of your CT images & the report I’d do that, then you have copies if you want to try online/ telehealth appointments later.

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Thanks for all your advice - yes I will get copies of everything

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Awww this is so thoughtful, thank you! I will look into Vodder and see what he can line up. We do have a few of the other suggestions lined up. I bought an inflatable wedge pillow for travel, he has an O2 monitoring device. We’re also meeting with our doctor in 2 weeks for a medical “checklist” to make sure he has other vital items.

As for my mom, they got everything in the surgery, yay! She’s doing fantastic. So lucky.

You mentioned being in the hospital, and I hope you are getting the care and attention you need. I’ve read some of your story and it has been a long and complex journey for you. Thank you again for taking the time to reach out and take care of yourself.

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Comfiwave neck device image- in UK from Haddenhams. D

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