I think for us it could take some time before seeing the benefits after surgery. Because even though the styloids are removed, it’ll take time for the SCMs to atrophy to normal and for deep neck flexors to adapt back to normal. So if there is any ijv compression happening due to scm, or any dizziness due to them malfunctioning, it will get better after surgery but it will take time. Fingers crossed relief will be instant after styloidectomy though!!! I see a lot of posts about dizziness and other symptoms not better immediately following surgery, and I think it’s because of the muscle imbalances built in response to our styloids!
You obviously know your stuff @TML ; we’ve noticed a few members recently with what looks like pretty big thyroid cartilage (it often doesn’t seem to show up that much on the CTs) ; from what you’ve seen is yours normal do you think? I’ve tried researching ‘normal’ thyroid images but can’t see any as obvious as yours & some of our other members’… have you looked into this at all? It’s close to the area of compression around your SCM muscle too?
Thanks @Jules ! I can take it a step further too. This article https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1358863X20902842 discusses a patient who experienced IJV thrombosis due to styloid/C1 compression. The patient was painting a ceiling for several hours two days before. The researchers suspect that the neck extension (i.e., looking up) had something to do with the thrombosis formation. For me, I had painted my whole house and ceilings last summer, and then I went on two massive hikes that involved looking up the mountain path in front of me. I think something about looking upwards alleviates the C1 styloid compression at first, but over time this extension (if in combination with forward head posture) causes upper/mid vertebrae (C2-C3ish) to shift forward which would pull C1 forward and eventually cause a worse pinch at C1 than what they were originally compensating for. For a lot of people with forward head posture (which is sort of a head extension depending on the position of the sternum - if pointed downwards with a slouch then your head is actually in upwards extension even though you think it’s straight) they see can see a forward shift of C2-C3 which I would imagine pulls C1 forward with them. Basically I theorize that (for SOME people) styloids cause compensatory upwards head extension (which if you work on a computer screen that is lower it will force you to slouch to make appropriate gaze at screen) to help with styloid-C1 space, but eventually over time, causes vertebrae to shift forward causing a worsening pinch (along with any muscle changes with the original posture compensation such as SCMs). I’m a clinical psych student so this stuff is out of my wheelhouse and I may be talking out of my bottom, but when you fight for your life for almost a year and you don’t get answers you begin to learn the nuances of your body and the reasons for your struggles.
I’m not too sure about the thyroid piece but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s implicated somehow, especially since my hyoid is in play. I’ll be sure to ask Dr. Cognetti about it in January!
@Jules Here is an axial slice that corresponds with the right IJV compression happening around the level of C6 in my 3D model I posted above. I don’t think the thyroid cartilage is a culprit here, I think it’s the right SCM. You can faintly see the left IJV on the other side (it lacks contrast so hard to spot), and it seems to be compressed by the SCM on that side as well. I think this compression at this level by the SCM will resolve with styloidectomies and my postural patterns are able to shift! I think the postural shift will fix the problem with my hyoid jamming into my carotid sinus area - my cervical spine will become more straight and distance itself from the hyoid, and the SCMs will be putting less pressure on the front/sides of the hyoid which should result in hyoid being pulled away from spine as well! Crazy how compensatory behaviors can cause system wide chaos lol.
It is crazy, I agree…I think it was @TheDude posted about having to retrain muscles all through the body after surgery! I did alot of cycling, so hunched over the handlebars but with head forward, that was when I got a prolapsed disc & the vascular ES symptoms started, I guess it was the shift in my neck, & maybe the extra exercise too…so it makes sense your theory about the decorating & hiking!
A shame you have to wait so long for your appointment with Dr Cognetti, but worth waiting for an expert opinion!
@Jules I was a competitive distance runner for probably 15 years. I stopped running about 3 years ago to focus on my studies. I think running was the only thing keeping my posture erect to fight compensatory posture.
Whoops forgot to upload the thyroid pic. It’s there now
@TML - I love that you’re taking the time to better understand how your body works & to logically put the pieces together into a scenario that makes sense as yo the causes of your symptoms as well as those of others on our forum.
Our bodies are very interactive & injury or compensation in one area will cause compensation by other areas as they work to resolve the deficit being caused by the injured/dysfunctional area. This means that the assisting joints, muscles, tendons, ligaments & nerves are doing jobs they weren’t meant to do, over time pain & other symptoms result.
I know you said you’re a psych major, but with your intuition into human body function, maybe you should consider switching to some type of medical practice. ![]()
I also seem to have an issue with my SCM. I have one spot behind my ear that makes the pain and pressure worse but if you pre super deep it relieves the pressure. Several PTs and ENTs have said this is my SCM attachment point.
I got a trigger point injection today and have been using a heating pad for weeks.
Most ENTs still say I have TMJ or that there is nothing wrong with my ear. Holding out for an appointment with Dr Annino next week.
I hope that Dr Annino can help, as well as the trigger point injection, let us know how you get on? ![]()
My mastoid insertions are tight as well, ans also the sternum and clavicle insertions. Only solution I have found is pulling chest up to relieve taughtness of SCMs to give them more slack. But sometimes it causes me pain likely my styloids or hyoid. So I think my body has subconsciously put me in a position best for my styloids/hyoid, but my SCMs are paying the price
