I am new here and would love some help with my native ct scans

Hello everybody.
and happy yule tide x mas bon noel felice navidad …

A little while ago I joined this forum and was overwhelmed with the amount of information and tragedies, so I kept quiet read and learned.
I was diagnosed with ES in 2006, after 4 years of sometimes insulting treatment by various doctors. After 4 years my styloid had grown enough that doctors could palpate it and i was referred to the local university hospital.
There the doctor in training had to get her supervisor who said: “oh thats ES, do you mind if for teaching purposes, we get the other students to poke around in your mouth?”

Of course I agreed, in the hope that some people might be spared the treatment I had endured.

He then offered ," well if you want to find out if this has anything to do with your symptoms, I could shorten it a bit for you intraorally." Quickly a date was set, more docs in training came by to poke around in my mouth pre op. I felt like a celebrity.
HEHE and only since joining this forum I became aware of how risky this operation was.
For 17 Years that ear was free of tinnitus. For me it was a minor operation.

3 Years after the operation my face started to twitch and I developed tinnitus on the other ear.
So obviously I concluded ES in the other ear and went back to the university clinic ->I was treated like a demented idiot (that doctor had left). They did not even do a ct scan, but tried to convinced me that its all psychosomatic.

So over the years more illnesses were found and treated, but nothing ever resolved everything.
How do you explain this to everyone around you? I withdrew into a nutshell.
I stopped talking about how I feel. I stopped seeing doctors as long as possible, just to avoid that look of “you hypochondriac, there’s nothing to be found”.

A bit over a year ago I started to cough, became really hoarse, hardly could breath, had the feeling of asphyxiating, made breathing noises like a jackhammer, mouth burning dry thus insomnia…Medication (budesonide) didn*t work, was increased to 6x normal dose, didn’t work. It was too painful to continue smoking. So I focussed on the withdrawal and breathing by biking all the time, and hopefully sleeping again, but my voice keeps disappearing.

Acupuncture keeps getting it back.
So with all the sports and all the eating from nicotene withdrawal I decided to work out properly and mobilise my painful neck and shoulders as well.

Weirdly enough trying to mobilise my neck and shoulders made me feel so much worse, until bling, I remembered those styloids.
My phoniatrician sent me for a ct scan. She has been monitoring my cyst in my throat (end of the tongue)and my vocal cord edema for the last 2 years just in case something might turn malign.

So here I present my native ct scans

Native because of course I am allergic to iodine.



and here the removed bit

I’d be pleased about any kind of feedback on my scans, as in the native scans i can’t judge if any nerves, veins or arteries might be implicated and I am really scared of being put off again like an idiot and left hopeless again.

I’m not glad that you’re getting symptoms again, but pleased that you feel up to posting for info now…it’s good that your first surgery worked well; if performed by a knowledgeable and skilled doctor intra-oral surgery can be successful, it’s just that external can be better.
You won’t be able to see any blood vessels in the scan without a contrast, so if you’re allergic to the iodine then it’s not possible…you could have an MRI with contrast done, they use gadolinium for that which can have side effects, so I wouldn’t recommend that really wither! You can try to judge if blood vessels are involved by having a look at the sort of symptoms which are common with vascular ES- briefly dizziness, fainting, eye pain with carotid compression, or head and ear pressure, off balance feeling, vertigo, pulsatile tinnitus for jugular vein compression. Here’s a link to the section which has more detail:
ES Information: Common Symptoms And Possible Explanations For Them - Welcome / Newbies Guide to Eagle Syndrome - Living with Eagle
Nerves don’t show on a CT either, there is a special MRI called FIESTA/ Ciss which does show the cranial nerves, but that’s pretty hard to actually get! Again, if you read through the symptoms, you can probably guess which nerves are affected- it’s usually the Trigeminal, Facial, Glossopharyngeal, Spinal Accessory and Vagus nerves which cause problems, for example the voice changes, coughing, feeling something stuck in your throat is usally the Glossopharyngeal nerve…
Looking at your scan, if it was your left side which was operated on before, it looks like it’s quite thick, and has had regrowth after the surgery, so this could well be causing symptoms. It may be an artefact from the scan, but it looks like there’s a small bit of calcification as well, but it looks a bit too central to be the stylohyoid ligament :thinking:
On the right your styloid is elongated & sharp like a needle, it looks like there’s a small joint at the end & then more calcification so it could be that the ligament has calcified too.
I would also say that your neck looks pretty straight, it’s lost it’s natural curve, called military neck, we see it quite often on here, it can alter the angle of the styloids sometimes which can make symptoms worse…If you use the search function you can read more about this, some members have done exercises which can ease symptoms a little. It 's a long thread, but there’s some info about exercises and postural changes here:
List of my favourite resources on YouTube to learn anatomy - General - Living with Eagle
We do know of a few doctors in Germany who treat ES, here’s a link in case you didn’t see it when you joined:
Doctor Lists – no discussion - Symptoms and Treatments / Doctor Information - Living with Eagle
looking at your CT and from your symptoms I’d say it’s worth you pursuing a new diagnosis and treatment- if you can get a referral to a doctor on the list that would be great. If you’re having trouble being taken seriously, then we suggest members print off research papers which correlate with your symptoms and take these to your appointment.
I hope that you’re able to get some help, and to enjoy Christmas despite the issues you’re having!

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Hi! I had my first successful surgery after 5 years of sever facial nerve pain. My second non operated side became more active soon after and when tinnitus started in that ear I demanded my second surgery. My styliods never pierced my throat but I did develop choking and swallowing issues before my second surgery. I would suggest finding an experienced doctors to evaluate your case. This group has a list of doctors and you can post where you live and where you can travel to as well. My styliods were both 3.5 cm and I did not need anything more that a regular ct to understand my issues. Yours are longer. I did keep a diary of what combination of movements spiked my pain. Lifting weight, talking with my head turned, massage with my face in a face cradle and looking up and down. My symptoms were different on each side and thought I tried medications and other treatments nothing helped but surgery. I always suggest avoiding interoral surgery unless the only symptom is a pill in the throat. External surgery they can cut off more of the styliod which means it will not bump into structures as much. After my Two surgeries I am about 90 percent but I do need to keep inflammation low with diet and exercise and occasionally exercise medication, support my head and avoid straining my neck. My tinnitus is 24/7 in one ear and I have no hope it will ever get better. Please find some expert help and if a doctor does not do surgery regularly like every month I would look for another.

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thx so much ann and jules
for your help and advice.
i am pretty certain that have vascular compression with certain head positions, pulsatile tinnitus and my glossopharyngal is definately in the game as well, constant nausea and heat rising up the back of my head and dizzyness occasional voice loss
I started to keep track of my symptoms with a little diary, and will try to differentiate between left and right.

I think I might have developed that military neck as a position of avoiding discomforts during the last 40 years, i.e since it started when i was 18…

Also considering that symptoms worsened when I tried to workout, mobilize more, thus leaving my comfort positions and I am doing better keeping my head straight…

So with this I wish all eagles a better new year

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My vascular symptoms worsened when I started cycling more- I ended up with a prolapsed disc C5-C6,so I think it was mainly that shifting the structures in my neck slightly, and also the exercise increasing blood flow to the head…
Some members have found wearing a soft collar at times helps keep their neck in a comfortable position.
A good idea to try & keep track of symptoms, although they do seem to vary at times for no obvious reason!

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Since you have voice loss, your vagus nerve sounds like it’s also involved in causing your symptoms. It almost always contributes to ES symptoms in some way or other. I’m very sorry you’re feeling so awful & do hope that you’re able to get medical help ASAP!

Thank you for the wish for a better New Year. I desire that for you, too! :hugs:

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