I'm very much dreading this, but here goes my plea for help

I have been battling daily pain for 3+ years now, and I honestly no longer know where to turn. I dismissed ES about a year or two ago, because it was considered quite rare and because I did not match most common symptoms listed.

But now I’m not so sure, so here’s a very abbreviated history:

  • My issues started in 2022 on upper left, but in retrospect I think I’ve had minor issues for more than a decade.
  • I had symptoms in my ear and in my teeth and, since I only had few teeth on my left side, over time I removed all 3 of them (as each got fully inflamed, one after another).
  • I’m currently left with just front two teeth there and I eat with removable prosthetics. TBH I’d be happy even as a dental cripple if there was no pain, but the issues did not stop there.
  • My ear (and part of my cheek) remained highly sensitive to cold air drafts.
  • I originally thought I had Trigeminal Neuralgia (another rare condition), so I did several head and neck MRIs. These did not reveal any compression of the trigeminal nerve.
  • I then thought I had acquired (or already had) TMJ disorder (esp. with pulling teeth, despite not really having most of teeth there for decades), so I went to a TMJ specialist here in Houston, did the Jaw MRIs and examinations (even Botox injection), but nothing untoward was revealed.
  • Finally, my oral surgeon spotted something on the dental CBCT and asked me to check if I have ES. So, I did the CT for ES and it revealed a calcified portion of the stylohyoid ligament.

And, before we proceed, I literally looked at the 3D rendered CT today, and the calcified portion is only ~15mm, detached from styloid process, and about 1.5mm from C1. In the CT results, it says “partially calcified stylohyoid ligament, combined length 31mm” but the keyword there is “combined.”

Now that we cleared the history and current state, here are my symptoms:

Skin and Superficial Muscles

(most of my symptoms are manifesting here, so this is the longest section)

(1), (3), (4), (6) are “always” symptoms. I have them all the time. So, dull pain in blue area, sensitivity to cold drafts in green areas, yellow tender areas (pain on pressure or massage), and neck pain (pink area) are always present.
Neck pain (6) gets worse with turning head to the left, and even worse if head is then tilted. It is also worse if head is just tilted to the left.

(2) red area pain shows up when things worsen from one of the above, or some other factor. E.g., I got cold air draft, or I massaged the (1) or (4) instinctively, or I tilted my head to the left for too long, or I drank/ate some stimulant (caffeine, or too much sugar in a meal), or stress, or I used cheek muscles too much (like keeping a smile for too long). I can always cause and/or increase (2) pain by either hunching over something or by tucking my chin in and tilting head left, or by leaning on my left shoulder while sitting/lying down.
Normally, jaw movement and speech is not that much of an irritant, but once already (2) is irritated, moving the jaw makes it worse (speech or otherwise).

(5) will show up once the other symptoms are really bad. Then, my tooth will feel inflamed. Basically, neuropathic itch pain. Hard to describe. This is not that often, I actually had a “pause” of this for about 2 years. Came back in the last month.

There is also sometimes a dull pain traveling down my throat and into the chest. Feels like it follows the path of the jugular. This is not always present.

Hyoid Bone

It is quite lop-sided. Left side is quite low, right side is up. Not sure if that matters, but mentioning here. Pictures, below, will show this.

Mouth and Throat

Inside the mouth, there is same dull pain all the way to the back, at the throat. Left side. There is a muscle or something there on the side, which one can even press a finger against (if your gag reflex is low) and feel it tense up when swallowing. That area has dull pain, sometimes burning.
My tongue sometimes feels like it got scraped by something hard (left side only). I’m not sure if it is a burn, but it feels kind of like one. Like spicy food made it back there a bit. This symptom is more recent, last few months.

Sinus

Inside my nose, left sinus is often swollen shut if I sleep to the left or if my head is turned to the left when I sleep. It is also always more obstructed. There is always some drainage on that side, as well.

Additional Symptoms

  • Ear ringing. Always. Feels like it is more from the left, but both ears ring. Gets worse as my other symptoms get worse. Especially if the cold air draft irritates the ear canal.
  • Hearing is off. This is only sometimes. When it happens, I feel like there is something blocking my hearing on the left, like someone slapped me on my ear and I cannot hear properly afterwards. Or like the ear pressure is wrong. I checked (with otoscopic camera), there is no obstruction in that ear.
  • Cannot tell you with 100% certainty whether swallowing generally feels odd on the left, because of too many other symptoms always present. I think it does feel a bit weird on the left, but I may have gotten so used to it over the years that it is not easy to notice. I don’t think it is painful, but it is slightly “off.”
  • Normal use of jaw (speech, eating) does not cause issues unless I’m already in “cheek burning” phase (bad symptoms), but opening really wide (like for yawn) will hurt on the left first time, then a bit less in subsequent tries.
  • I will sometimes get a headache from all the pain.
  • I will sometimes feel unwell. It will start with sudden sweating and can last up to few hours. I have always attributed it to some involuntary panic attacks and anxiety.
  • Rarely, there is a feeling of tickle in my throat on the left. Like when you are sick and need to cough. Basically, I tear up and I need to “cough it out” at that point. But, there is nothing there, it is just a tickle out of nowhere.

Additional Data

  • I already had my tonsils removed as a kid.
  • Full disclosure, I also have sciatic pain in my left leg. Comes and goes, mostly mild. The symptoms there can get worse if my facial and neck pain symptoms get worse. Almost like I get “sensitized.”

Mental State

It is bad. I am very much hopeless. I don’t fit anything clearly, not TN, not TMJd, not ES (based on my reading of these forums), not MS (multiple sclerosis). Just “pain of unknown origin” which is the worst thing, because diagnosis is half the battle. Without a diagnosis, a person is lost in symptoms and no specific targeted treatment.

Last year I was losing 10 lb / month from pure depression. Yes, I was suicidal. I climbed out of that when I removed my teeth and my symptoms started improving, but in recent months I’ve acquired additional symptoms I did not have before (like the throat burning thing). I don’t want to fall back into those thoughts again :frowning:.

I’m afraid to travel anywhere. I am afraid of air! I know, it’s insane, but I’ve been hit by drafts of air in airports, outside, in hotels, and if I don’t escape the draft within minutes, I will be in Hell for the next 24hrs. I sleep in a cubby to prevent air movement around my head.

I cannot sleep on my left. At all. This has caused me issues with my right shoulder, so I’m kind of stuck on my back at this time.

CT Pictures

Sagittal view. Calcified portion of stylohyoid ligament. There is a little bit more in another slice, but this is the most of it.

3D views – one is low-res from above CT, and another is high-res from a CT with 0.2mm slices (most detailed CT I’ve ever seen). Distance from C1 is measured at about 1.5mm, length of calcified portion is ~15mm and it is flatter on one side in the lower section, with a “bit” sticking out slightly.

An animated gif with hyoid bone. Note the horns, left is quite lower than right.

hyoid_bone_coronal_f2b

I am also including some animated gifs of axial, sagittal, and coronal views of the calcification from the last CT scan.

es_axial_t2b

es_coronal_f2b

es_sagital_r2l_and_back

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@sbincamp there’s a couple of views that I’d like to see. Particularly your hyoid bone, thyroid cartilage, and C1. I’d also like to check the full lengths of both IJVs and your carotids.

I’ve been helping members with their imaging here for months. What works best is putting the CT files into a google drive folder and then private messaging me a link to the folder. This way I can look through the entirety of the imaging. You’d no longer be anonymous to me, but I would not be sharing any of your personal information to anyone. Once I look through I provide annotated images of what I find. Let me know your thoughts!

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I’m sorry that you’ve been struggling so much & for a long time… Just because they couldn’t find any compressions, doesn’t mean you don’t have TN; your pain sounds just like it! And TN is a known symptom of ES, there are some research articles mentioning it, & stating patients have been cured after s styloidectomy. The facial nerve is also commonly affected, and has branches in similar areas. (I have trigeminal nerve pain, not the electric shocks but a sort of burning like freezer burn as you describe or itchy sore pain, as well as tooth and jaw ache). Pain in the neck when turning your head is a common symptom, sore tongue or burning mouth pain are common, the sweating and anxiety can happen with vagus nerve compression- given you mention a very small space between your calcified ligament or styloid & C1 this could well be the case. The Internal jugular vein is commonly compressed in this area- do you have any vascular ES symptoms, like head/ ear pressure, dizziness, off-balance feeling, pulsatile tinnitus?
If your hyoid is wonky that could well explain why your swallowing feels off, 7 either this or the calcified ligament could be contributing to the tickly cough…
If you’re able to get a referral to one of the doctors on our list who we knows has experience of ES that would be a good idea, I think it’s worth pursuing!
Here’s a link to the doctors list:
Doctor Lists – no discussion - Symptoms and Treatments / Doctor Information - Living with Eagle

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@sbincamp - Thank you for the thorough symptoms list & some images. I wish I could pause the videos at certain points but couldn’t figure out how to do that. It’s hard to tell what I’m seeing when the images change so quickly. I’m glad @TML has offered his help as he’ll give you a much more thorough accounting of what’s in your CT than a radiologist or doctor will.

The doctors we’ve heard the most about in your state are in the Dallas area, but there are some others in Houston & San Antonio. I’m sorry to say, you may need to travel outside of your area to get the help you need.

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The only dizziness I sometimes have, I have attributed to Gabapentin medication. It has that side effect. When on higher doses, I had the feeling of still turning when I suddenly turned my head. It even makes your eyes feel like the want to cross. I have been lowering the dose and the dizziness is less.

So, I’d say I do not have those classic symptoms.

BTW, I really have to think about it :slight_smile: since I’ve been used to 1800mg/day of Gabapentin or 300mg/day Pregabalin (Lyrica) + nortriptyline/amitriptyline/Cymbalta. I’ve gotten used to “foggy” and “dizzy” LOL. TBH, I was never as bothered by it as other people are. When you have these symptoms + pain from multiple spots, your brain will “tune out” some of the lesser symptoms.

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TY! I will try and set this up (there will be more than one CT there, I will annotate which was for what). Will DM when I do.

BTW, do you want just CTs, or would you like to also see MRIs? MRIs were done for different reason, but they are of head and neck (and jaw, since I was also investigating TMJd). These may not highlight bone, though, they show more soft tissues (incl. nerve tissue).

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Forum does not allow uploading MP4s, so I had to go with animated GIFs from short videos. Is there a way to DM short videos?

BTW, thanks for Radiant Viewer suggestion. It was really good to render CTs into 3D.

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Doctors listed for Texas do not seem to have ES surgery experience. I may have to do virtual consult and would likely have to travel outside TX if any surgery is scheduled.

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Latest CT with contrast is all I’ll need! @sbincamp

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There are 2-3 doctors in TX who have a decent amount of ES surgery experience. Dr. Chan Leveno in Dallas is probably top of the list. The biggest problem we’ve found w/ TX ES docs is that they look for particular symptoms to be present, for example, a sore throat. In the absence of throat pain, they won’t diagnose the problem as ES. As we know from years of experience on here, not everyone w/ ES gets a sore throat. I didn’t have one (sore neck, yes, sore throat, no). My problems were more in my face, ears, neck, & tongue, plus heart, & bp.

I’m not sure about DMing short videos. Have you tried & it didn’t work? I’m not very techy so can’t give any vice in that regard. Sorry about that!

@sbincamp see attached annotated images.

Above the level of C1 (i.e., between the skull-base and C1), both IJVs are being compressed by soft tissues. I’m not sure exactly which muscles these are - they don’t follow the typical trajectory of the the posterior digastric that commonly compresses IJVs. The calcified stylohyoid ligament on your left that you have already identified is contributing to the compression of your left IJV. At the level of C1, your right IJV is compressed against the wing of your C1 transverse process.

Further down (about halfway between the skull and hyoid), you have a very small pocket of calcified stylohyoid ligament on the left side. This may not look like much, but it really doesn’t take much of a solid mass to irritate nerves. Every time you swallow that little calcified pocket will be bouncing around in your neck.

Even further down, your left greater horn is in direct contact with your left ECA. Mechanical irritation of the carotids can refer pain up and down it’s length (e.g., up the jaw and down the neck and chest on same side). Every time you swallow, the greater horn may be rubbing against the ECA.

Hope this helps!

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@sbincamp here is the calcified pocket further down in the 3D model:

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TYVM, @TML ! This looks like more than I thought. I’m not even sure I could fix most of this.

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As @TML has seen some IJV compression & potentially from the C1 process,
Dr. Babu Welch at UT Southwestern, 5303 Harry Hines Blvd 7th floor, Dallas, has performed surgery for VES and has worked with Dr Lee Pride, an interventional radiologist. So an option in Texas… If your hyoid is causing an issue I don’t know if he would do that, not so many doctors treat HBS although one member has had surgery with a Utah doctor:
Dr Marshall Smith, Salt Lake City (Successful thyroid cartilage surgery on ramblinman but does not do ES surgery) Marshall E. Smith | University of Utah Health
Has published a research paper into clicking of the throat & successful surgery:
Clicking in the throat: cinematic fiction or surgical fact? - PubMed

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So, I think TML identified 6 issues.

  1. L side IJV compression by soft tissue (slightly above C1).
  2. R side IJV compression by soft tissue (also above C1).
  3. L side IJV compression via contribution from calcified stylohyoid segment.
  4. R side IJV compression by C1 transverse process.
  5. L side potential issue from a very small calcified stylohyoid segment lower on the ligament.
  6. L side greater hyoid horn contact with ECA.

Perhaps silver lining…

  • (6) I can move my hyoid (L side gr. horn) and instigate symptoms manually. This lets me test if the L side ECA compression by hyoid is an issue, and in what way.
  • (3) Now that I know the precise location of the 15mm calcified stylohyoid, I can palpate it as well (both C1 transverse processes can be palpated).
  • (4) I can also palpate the R side C1 transverse process, as well, and see if IJV compression there is an issue, and what symptoms it produces.

I’m honestly not sure why I don’t have more symptoms from IJV compression at C1 process and above. I’ll go dig into ChatGPT.

@Jules , thanks for the doctor referrals. I’m very afraid of surgeries in these places. I’ll definitely consult with several of them (remotely).

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Hi. The hell you are in. Me too. Some different symptoms.

In all your extensive research I cannot find where you have had a panoramic view xray. My ES was first found by a dentist using that form of xray. My dr didn’t believe him. She refused to view the xray. But a month later the pain was so bad I went to Emergency to see if there was any help. The Emerge dr ordered another pano xray: yep. Same styloid problems of disfigurement. This confirmed I had ES. I’m slated to see a surgeon in Winnipeg but am so sick right now (maybe have pneumonia) I have to delay. This kills me! (Kill? Yes me too. Fight off suicide thoughts often!) Mines been going in now at least 8 years. And I have a new dr and I think she too doesn’t believe me. I do not think she’s looked at my X-rays and other proofs. Good luck my dear.

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@sbincamp - Please let us know what you find out from the doctors you consult. We’re here for any questions that come up as a result of your consults. Here is a list of questions we recommend asking any doctor you’re considering for ES surgery:

**Questions To Ask Your Doctor:

  1. How many ES surgeries have they done and what was the success rate?

  2. Whether they’re going to operate externally, or intraoral- through the mouth. Whilst some members have had successful surgeries with intraoral, external is better for seeing all the structures, to be able to remove more of the styloids, & also there’s less chance of infection.

  3. You need to ask how much of the styloid he’ll remove- as much as possible is best- & anything left needs to be smoothed off. The piece needs to be removed too- some doctors have snapped it off & left it in! If the styloid is only shortened a bit it can still cause symptoms.

  4. If your stylohyoid ligaments are calcified, then any calcified section needs to be removed too.

  5. There’s usually swelling after surgery; you could ask if a drain’s put in to reduce swelling, or if steroids are prescribed. It’s not essential, but can help with recovery a bit.

  6. Will it be a day case surgery or will you need to stay in?

  7. Obviously ask the risks- we know from experience on here that temporary damage to the facial nerve is quite common, and also the hypoglossal nerve and the accessory nerve. These usually recovery very quickly but in some cases members have needed physiotherapy. There is also the risk of catching a blood vessel or having a stroke, but these are very rare.

  8. Ask if the surgeon monitors the nerves- this should be done to see if there’s stress on the nerves to avoid damage as mentioned above.

  9. What painkillers will be prescribed afterwards.

  10. Ask about recovery- most doctors either down play it or are genuinely unaware of how long the recovery can take!

  11. We have heard that occasionally doctors use surgical clips which are left in, it’s been suggested that these could interfere with chiropractic adjustments if needed post-surgery, so something to consider, and also we have now seen members who’ve been left in pain from the clips and needed further surgery to remove them, so do ask if they might be used.

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I feel you. You got the diagnosis, now time to fight for that surgery. I hope it brings you relief!

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Thank you. Also @TML is really good at spotting things. I can spot some of these externally (like the ECA being pushed out by hyoid, even my wife could feel the “bump” on my neck).

I dug into ChatGPT a bit.

It came back with suggestion to do an ultrasound for carotids (and veins) – carotid/venous doppler test – to see blood flow in different head positions and determine if there is sufficient outflow. It also suggested vascular CT angiography.

It also mentioned that IJV compression is often not symptomatic because other veins may provide sufficient outflow (tests above would provide more clear answers). I may be one of those asymptomatic cases.

However, for the ECA, I do not think I am asymptomatic. In fact, the pain that travels down my neck into my chest towards my aorta is possibly ECA, as well as some of the pain travelling up into my head.

Also, now that I’ve stared at 3D of my CT (thank you, @Isaiah_40_31 , I purchased subscription to radiant viewer, very useful tool), I am certain that the constant pain in my neck (under mastoid bone, just behind SCM muscle) is the irritation of my C1 process, possibly from the calcified ligament. The spot on the back precisely matches where the calcification is and C1 is.

AI also suggested various blocks – injections of lidocaine+steroids (or bupivacaine for longer anesthetic effect) — to rule out where the source of pain is. In this order (risk increases downwards) – and this would be for pain behind coronoid process and just under zygomatic arch, but you can ask this for any pain:

  • auriculotemporal block (lowest risk) – ruling in/out neuralgia
  • TMJ capsular block – ruling in/out TMJ issues
  • deep temporal / temporalis tendon block – ruling in/out some myofascial issues
  • lateral pterygoid muscle block – ruling in/out another kind of TMJ issue
  • styloid-region block (into the tonsillar fossa, highest risk) – ruling in/out ES referred pain

Basically, if you anatomically pinpoint the pain to AI, describe what increases it and what does not, it can start to suggest possible issues and even tests for them.

AI could be wrong (we should never take its diagnosis for granted!), but it gives us tools to approach doctors with more precise questions.

P.S. BTW, AI initially dismissed the 15 mm calcified ligament as being likely cause of facial pain, but it flipped it when I mentioned that it comes to <2mm from C1 transverse process, especially if it points medially and posteriorly. It was still skeptical for pain in trigeminal nerve, especially V2. It said V2 is too high up, but did not fully dismiss some referred pain from other nerves (it considered glossopharyngeal a more likely nerve to be irritated, or even vagus). It gave me 50/50 on symptom resolution from styloidectomy.

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