@Snapple2020,
What is OV?
Yeah. Ct scan give some radiation. Do you think it’s harmful considering the age? My cousin did say that it depends on the age for radiation.
My tmj specialist told me that I might need mri for brain and neck after starting his treatment and no improvement. He said he will order those mri after I start his treatment and he don’t see any improvement with that.
I also have a small lump in the same spot under ear and it hurts badly to touch. This is since may till today. The same spot which is like a lump. Another one on the side of the neck.
@Snapple2020. I do ask all the doctors about this lump and why is hurting to touch. Nobody bothers to answer that and it hurts a lot to touch.
I did talk to my Endo now. She is very sure that she couldn’t see any fracture in the x-ray. She was not able to open my cbct images which I have taken at my dentist office. She want me to come and take one in her office if I want to. She also said honestly that won’t show anything either. So don’t go for extraction and try crown. This was her reply. I trust her opinion. My dentist want me to try extraction as he think that’s the reason for my pain and symptoms. Difficult phase in my life and don’t want what’s going on with me.
OV = Office visit. I asked about the bump for years and was continually blown off. Those CBCT can be difficult to open without the right software to open them. You are getting multiple opinions from varying professionals and getting caught up in a loop which can be confusing. I cant answer what is harmful for your age. Finding the cause of the problem and the pain outweighed any potential risk for radiation for me. This is personal only to you. I can only suggest dont let fear (or others people fears) rule your decisions and listen to you body and what you feel is right. Maybe take a couple days to ponder all that you have learned.
I only suggest since your ENT had already ordered a CT scan of sinus to request add on the neck and do in one felt swoop. He’s probably the better chance of getting what you want to rule in or out the Eagles, then you can move on if that is not it. If you want to know if you have Eagles, you need a CT scan of your neck. Focus on one thing at a time. Doing another CBCT because that doc cant open it, doesnt make sense and if she admits it wont result in new info, why bother? At least she is being honest and giving you good advice not to do an extraction yet. I would trust endo before dentist as they are more specialized in roots. Now doing another CBCT would be unnecessary radiation.
Thank you so much @Snapple2020. I really appreciate your response.
I don’t know how old are you. But your inputs and @Isaiah_40_31 inputs are very wise and thoughtful.
Thank you so much.
Yeah, the Endo said she couldn’t see any fracture in xray. I told her that dentist suspect a fracture from Cbct which you didn’t see or take one at your office. She said that is not the only thing to see for fracture and I always check for clinical findings. So I said ok, I will talk to my dentist to convince him that I don’t want to do extraction.
You are right. I am getting multiple opinions and thoughts and been in the loop since may. I started my dentist visit in June and still stuck with dental stuff. Saw the ENT before visiting a dentist. I will check with ENT if he can order a neck scan without a visit. I have been told by the Assistant that he want to reevaluate the sinus issue before moving further. So they want me to come in. I will check with them again.
And I have been told by my PCP to go to a neurologist. She didn’t even reply back to my query about eagles. She replied like, you have to go to a neurologist and follow up with them. My question was, do you think anything related to eagles as my dentist want me to rule out. Do you see anything in my neck ultrasound? But she didn’t reply to it.
So, I am confused if I should go to neuro first or to an ENT. May be I have to see both. I am just finding hard to decide whom to see further to check it out.
I forgot to mention this.
I have ringing in ear often. And hearing some soft music sound in ear while lying down when ac is on. If I turn it off , sound goes off after sometime. It’s so soft music humming.
This thing started in the last week of July and been there everyday since 2 weeks back. In the last 2 weeks, I get ringing sound randomly and soft humming sometime in the night while lying down. Does eagles create this symptom?
There are a number of our forum members who’ve found it necessary to send their CT scans to ES doctors in other states in order to get accurately diagnosed or to get a second opinion. Some of the doctors on our list do video consult calls. There is a charge for this just as though it is an office visit, but most insurance companies will pay at least part of the charges.
As far as the radiation from a CT scan goes, it’s my understanding that x-ray radiation is harder on children who are still developing. Once we reach adulthood, & our bodies are mature, the impact is less of a problem. I also see a functional medicine doctor, & though they strive for less invasive/natural healing methods, there are times when those simply don’t work. I believe getting a CT scan to accurately diagnose or dismiss ES & having the surgery necessary to end the ES symptoms fall in that category. Because the styloid process(es) &/or calcified stylohyoid ligaments irritating cranial nerves in the neck are the cause of ES symptoms, it is only by removing those that allows the nerves to recover & symptoms to subside.
The ear ringing (tinnitus) & “music” sounds you hear are definitely among the symptoms caused by ES. Additionally, the trigeminal nerve is one of the nerves most often irritated by ES. It has 3 branches in your face & can cause tooth pain, ear pain, eye pain, nose pain, cheek pain, & migraine level headaches when it’s angry. I’ll post a picture below so you can see how extensive it its. You can also watch this video which will help you understand more about the TN:
Yes, tinnitus seems to be quite common among ES patients, although not the only cause.
I do agree with Isaiah though that maybe being shuttled back & forth between your ENT & dentist, both who are looking for other things rather than ES, is not helping, & maybe a phone consult would be better. If as Snapple says you could get the ENT to extend the CT to look at the neck also, you could then use that to send to someone with experience for a phone consult? I appreciate that you’re worried about seeing the ENT because of the sinus procedure, so would they respond to a phone call instead of a visit?
Thank you jules. I will check with ent office if they take it as phone visit. I don’t want to do another scope. Though it’s a simple thing, I feel like doing it again without any cause and nothing found from it.
Yeah. I have been shuffled between dentist since June and still struggling to get answers. I am stuck with dental stuff and dentists since June and been to many dentists. Didn’t see ent or anyone else.
I am summing up my symptoms.
-constant burning pain in lower jaw under ear since may.
mild swelling in lower jaw since may.
ear pain and feel clogged ( since may)
ringing in ear often and some soft humming music sound in ear while lying down when ac is on. Since august
sore pain on top of head above ear on one spot. It hurts to touch. Since July and I felt this after wisdom tooth extraction.
neck is so tight and tight. Mild swelling in neck and one small lump. Since July.
burning pain in neck since July
constant feel of something stuck in throat since August.
Main concern is constant burning pain under ear , side of the neck and constant feel of something stuck in throat. Neck is so tight and stiff till collar bone. Only on right side. Able to swallow. But other times, it’s so difficult and have that constant feel. Is this feel common with eagles?
The stuck in the throat feeling is the classic ES symptom, stiff, painful neck is common too. If you look at the images of the Trigeminal nerve Isaiah posted, you can see the path of the nerves & can get pain anywhere along them. So the pain you get at the top of your head could be the Ophthalmic branch. The Facial nerve is often affected too;
The nerve branches are similar to the Trigeminal nerve, but do go below the ear, which could possibly be the pain you get?
Symptoms do vary alot for no known reason quite often, good days & bad days, they’re not always constant.
More than jaw pain under ear, the neck pain is worse for me. I have a mild swelling on the side of the neck. Anyone have swelling along with pain? Is swelling normal with eagles? I have a lump too on the neck. The area where I have swelling hurts to touch and feel like burning pain and irritates inside.
A number of our forum members have noted swelling w/ ES. It’s often a salivary or lymph gland or glands that are irritated by the styloids or the nerves. These are commonly sore to the touch. The nerve that gets bothered by ES which affects your neck is the accessory nerve. There is also a Two- Minute Neuroscience video for that one which you can look up.
To answer your question, it is the styloids which irritate the trigeminal nerve & not the other way. Jules sent a wonderful picture which shows the facial nerve. As you can see, it runs in many of the same areas as the trigeminal nerve but it has more effect on facial expressions (it can also cause eye pain) where the trigeminal nerve has more effect in the ears, mouth, nose & sometimes forehead area (where it causes headaches). The pain at the base of your skull can be caused by the vagus nerve. That is also a common symptom of ES.
ES can cause Trigeminal Neuralgia; by irritating or compressing the nerves. The Glossopharyngeal nerve is often affected too. And as Isaiah says, small lumps are common too.
Thank you @Jules for this information. Appreciate it.
I think I have to rule out eagles first , then neuralgia. It’s confusing though. I have a cbct scan images and am trying to convert to 3 d image through some software radiant viewer.
I have a question. How about eating food? How to manage eating food? I am completely on soft food diet for last 5 months. I am not chewing much. And not using right side at all. Only on left side. How to manage eating food? Do everyone follow only soft diet?
And another thing, I have extracted upper right wisdom tooth in July as dentist said that could be the reason for my pain in lower jaw and neck. After extraction till now, I feel some tightness in the extraction gum site. It hurts to open the tooth and am not able to open wider. The upper jaw and extraction site feels tight and stiff. Is this normal? I am not using right side at all and not opening wider for 5 months now. So since this extraction it’s very tight and stiff. The gum area is so tight. I also have some bone fragment left from the extraction. It’s on the gum area of the extraction site. Like small hard bump on the gum. OMFS said it will absorb on it’s own and it’s same for 3 months now and gives a sharp pain.
The tightness in the extraction gum is bothering me more. I don’t know if that is normal after upper wisdom tooth extraction. This is the first time I have extracted upper wisdom tooth.
Well, soft food for 5 months? Hmm I’m not sure about others but that is a long time.
Sure seems your symptoms indicate significant degree of muscle and ligament tightness and TMJ/jaw joint issues. Maybe the jaw being open so long during wisdom tooth removal aggravated the jaw joint? I cant see where removing a wisdom tooth would cause neck pain. Not for this long. Unless you have an infection brewing in there. I would suggest some injections re: nerve blocks to help identify what is causing this re: neurologist. Ultimately, like in my case it can be more than one thing.
Im curious if you have had all wisdom teeth removed? Generally they all are removed at same time as they can crowd the other teeth. Depends on your mouth and palate size whether you can get away without taking them all out.
During surgery my surgeon came across a lymph node that was “very vascular”. It was benign but may have been the sensitive bump. ES can cause all kinds of irritations and the body reacts to it in different ways.
I know you are struggling with what to do next. I suggest still working on getting that CT scan of neck as a priority and also schedule (first find) a neurologist who does the injections. I dont think your cbct goes far enough down the neck to get much out of a 3d image but may help to see your jaw and teeth areas.
Yeah, I am on soft diet since may. The neck pain started before the wisdom tooth removal. OMFS said it’s because of wisdom tooth and told me to remove it. My upper wisdom tooth was super erupted and he removed it in a couple of minutes. I didn’t open the mouth for a long time.
I still have left upper wisdom tooth. Removed other three. The lower ones were removed a decade back. The right upper was removed this July.
Yeah,my cbct shows my tmj and jaw joint and teeth. I see those images and got the cbct report for the same. It includes tmj, teeth and other area description too. I have attached that report in my previous messages.
I don’t know what injection are you talking about with respect to neurologist. I got a referral from my PCP for a neurologist. I didn’t schedule yet. Waiting to get the dental crown work done first. Then will go with ent and neurologist based on the availability. Don’t know if I need CT, mri (neurologist will order this for sure to rule out other things) considering if this is a muscular issue. If it’s muscular, then I would be going through unnecessary imaging ct and mri.
In order to rule out Eagle Syndrome, you will need to have an CT scan. The MRI may not be necessary depending on what the CT scan shows. As Snapple2020 has said, a CT scan is the “gold standard” for diagnosing ES. It’s what all ENTs require to see in order to confirm or deny a diagnosis. As I have said, you have a significant piece of styloid or calcified ligament that is separated from the tip of your right styloid process. I saw in your written reports that the right side of your neck is more tender/sensistive than the left so it seems the segmented styloid may be at fault for causing at least some of the symptoms you’re having. The segmented styloid can be classified as Eagle Syndrome.
The injections Snapple is talking about contain lidocaine & cortisone or just lidocaine or cortisone. They are used both to help diagnose ES & to temporarily stop the pain from it. They are often given in the neck by a neurologist using ultrasound guidance in order to place the medicine accurately. If there is pain relief from the injection then Eagle Syndrome is suspected.
Thank you @Isaiah_40_31.
Thanks for information about the injection. Haven’t heard of it before. Does it mean that neurologist will check or diagnose eagles?
The neurologist may be informed about ES, but more than likely won’t know anything about it, & you’ll still be in the dark. They can diagnose neuralgias; getting that diagnosed can help in that they can prescribe medications for that, but if the cause is ES & they don’t know anything about it, you won’t be any further forward in getting the actual cause treated. The best way to get an ES disgnosis ruled in or out is to get a CT, ask for it to be & evaluated for ES, if necessary by someone with experience, ie have a phone consult with one of the doctors on our list.
If you say it all started with neck pain, this could be caused by ES, it’s likely the neurologist won’t be able to help with that!
