Surgery Update (Dr. Liu)

Hi all,

I had my surgery on September 2nd with Dr. James Liu. The entire process was seamless and I will try to outline the major points of the surgery and my experience for everyone considering this.

I had a CTA with contrast and pressure measurements. They place a catheter line in your groin or wrist and run a wire through your aortic arch up to each jugular and other main cerebral veins to get exact pressure gradients.

It was confirmed my right side was a near full occlusion (blocked by styloid) and it was really nice to have great detailed real time evidence that this was the right decision to move forward with surgery.

After my CTA in the morning I was immediately admitted and kept in the hospital for close monitoring and care by the teams which again was seamless.

After the overnight I was taken down to be prepped for surgery which there wasn’t a lot of prep. I was in a waiting room on my hospital bed for about 45 minutes hanging out with family and friends and then as soon as I met with all of the surgical team including Doctor Liu they wheeled me into the operating room and got me on the table. The anesthesiologist was very nice and started making casual conversation with me as he began to make me relaxed. One moment we were talking about fishing and hobbies and the next moment I was waking up in the recovery room. I was somewhat groggy but overall I felt very good. I was attended by a nurse the entire time here and she was very thorough, encouraging and, positive. I was here for an about an hour a half. The entire time blood pressure, oxygen saturation, heart rate and rhythm all constantly being monitored.

After this I was transported to get a CT scan to get a visual of how the vein had opened up. Once this was done I was wheeled up to the room I was in before which is a big spacious hotel like room that can fit plenty of people. They have food that you can order from the cafeteria all part of your stay and it will be brought to you. They have liquid options if solids are a struggle due to surgery. Again all vitals are constantly monitored and nurses and doctors come in regularly to check on you, perform neurological tests, and give you any medication you may need.

This room is where I was for the rest of the time. Day 1 was pretty rough after the pain meds wore off that the surgery team gave me before leaving the OR. I was then put on oxy, steroids for swelling, and a short course of iv antibiotics to prevent infection at the surgery site. Overall I felt SO MUCH BETTER. There was this newfound peace, I could feel body functions like digestion, blood flow, and autonomic coordination coming back to life. That made me so happy that I really didn’t even care about the pain and stiffness from the surgery. I could not use most of my neck muscles without pain all through day 1. The oxy and steroids made this bearable though.

Day 2 my sleep the from the night before was atrocious… i got an hour in and fight or flight symptoms all came back. I noticed they came back close to when I started getting my steroid medication through the IV. Steroids are essentially a synthetic stress hormone (cortisol) this is why they work because if you are running from a bear the cortisol will prevent your body from starting recovery processes until you are safe this inhibits the intense post op swelling. This checked out to the way I was feeling though it was hard to finally have this long saught peace only to have it stripped away from you quickly. I started getting a bit more mobility in my neck and was able to do 4 laps around the floor I was staying on. I was continuing to feel better but it was still up and down.

Day 3 (current) - my body has slightly adjusted to the steroids and has most likely reduced output of its own natural cortisol because I was able to get the best sleep I’ve had in over a year and a half last night (in a busy distracting hospital no less). My deep sleep was near 2 hours total almost 30% of my total and I could feel it. The surgical site was much less painful I have a ton more mobility in my neck and I was able to eat solid foods and feel GREAT! pain is probably at a 2-3 currently and do not need propranolol to keep my heart rate in control- it is back to the normal 40-50’s resting without medication. My blood pressure is normal without medication too.

I met with dr Liu today and I will be discharged sometime later today. I will continue to update with my healing and please if you are having any questions on your journey use myself and all the resources you have here. It is such a dice roll when you are self diagnosing and I know how nerve racking it can be.

Thank you to the moderators and all of their hardwork, knowledge, and patience. As well as everyone who gave me their perspective along the way here. Because of this journey my daughter will have a dad that can function not just at 10% but fully be there with her in all aspects of life to help guide her in making a positive impact on this world so as I told the doctor each of you have inadvertently touched thousands of lives by proxy.

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Very happy that you found a wonderful surgeon who fixed your compression, what a great post and pictures! Thanks for sharing. Why did you have to undergo a CTA before the operation? Was your prior CT scan not adequate? Wishing you rest and a great recovery.

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Hi Jeff thank you! I had other CT scans but none with measuring the pressure gradient. This is just the way dr Liu normally runs it and I wasn’t opposed. I was really unsure if surgery was going to fix all these seemingly unrelated problems and I wanted as much evidence that i wasn’t making a terrible mistake. I’m sure he would have worked off the one I had if I had indicated I didn’t want the scan!

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@Mr.Finer Thank you for the wonderful update! Looking forward to hearing more about your recovery journey. Slow and steady!

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@Mr.Finer - Thank you for the detailed account of your time pre & post op. Very helpful for other members who will be seeing Dr. Liu for surgery. I’m so glad your experience was good.

You’re just starting into the post op period where swelling is the worst so don’t be alarmed if your pain & some symptoms get worse over the next 2-3 days before starting to calm down again. Icing your neck & sleeping w/ ~30º of head elevation & taking pain meds on schedule will help reduce swelling along with the prednisone. Make sure to also take a stool softener & laxative if you’re still taking the oxy. I had quite the wild ride emotionally from the 10 day post op course of oral prednisone I received. Just prior to my 3rd surgery for ES, I learned that dexamethasone works just as well as prednisone but w/o the more significant side effects which both you & I felt. Now that’s my “go to” if I have to take a steroid for some reason.

Your pictures are great! So good to see your IJV all plumped up!

I look forward to hearing your recovery story & answer questions you may have along the way. :hugs:

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thank you so much for the well wishes! I know healing isn’t linear but hopefully the trend continues!!!

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yes you are right I’m sure the swelling and pain will come soon and it’s to be expected! The doctors here did prescribe me dexamethasone however I am very sensitive to medication and it really messes with my fight or flight. I have yet to go numero dos since September first- I was attributing it to lower intake and mostly liquid diet but that’s a good suggestion with the stool softeners and I will definitely try it out!

Thank you so much and I look forward to getting more great suggestions and information here!

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It’s too early to talk about successes. I personally had surgery in 2025, and the positive effect lasted only 2–3 weeks, after which all the symptoms returned (just like for many patients who had their styloid processes removed). If your symptoms don’t return after a month or a month and a half, that means you’ve achieved victory. I hope you win. When you have the time and the strength, ask Dr. Liu whether he removed only the styloid process, right down to the root. Or did he additionally partially remove the digastric muscle and dissect the stylohyoid and styloglossus muscles? Did he partially resect C1 or not? Perhaps you could post your CT scans after the surgery? Don’t rush to respond; you need to rest and recover now. Wishing you rest and a great recovery.

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It would be nice to look at the CT scans before and after surgery. You can post Dicom images before and after the surgery right here on the forum, but only anonymously via this website: www(dot)dicomlibrary(dot)com/ If you wish for it yourself, you can send CT (Dicom) images via Google drive to my personal email (filatovtech@gmail.com or filatovtech@mail.ru ). I also understand that you are currently in a recovery period, and it is not very convenient for you to send CT scans right now. I hope you get better and recover. Maybe send it later. I also want to inform and warn you-to explain : The CT scans contain your personal information, such as last name, first name and date of birth, and you understand that you will share your personal information with me by sending me these CT scans by email. It’s up to you whether to send the CT scan images or not.

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@Filya Thanks Filya! All good thoughts and it’s good to remain pragmatic and not get overexcited. I will definitely send them when I get back home as the old scans are on my personal computer and I’m still in NJ. The operation was a complete decompression- styloidectomy up to the base of the skull, resection of muscles, fasciotomy, and C1 shave. I believe he even cuts and ties off the occipital artery if it is strangling the vein.

I will post those CTs so people can reference. The after CT scan is honestly not too impressive… though it does show some decompression they noted that there is air or edema in the area of the surgical site still causing some compression but noted that it should be transient. For me that tracks as I continue to improve so far and had my first bowel movement and am gaining more and more autonomic tolerance. Starting to taper the steroids today so I should really get the big picture once I’m off of those. My body was physically, mechanically trapped in a sympathetic state constantly for so long it needs undisturbed rest and digest to repair and refuel its batteries. It did such a great job hanging on till the end and was pushing it to the limits but it kept me safe and kept me alive. I can’t wait to give my body the full rest it needs.

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Yes, there will be swelling\edema for 6-7 days, it’s too early to assess the decompression of the vein.

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Yes you’re right. But the reality is for my it was not the compression- I could live with the headaches. It was a suspected vagus nerve impingement. Everything I have experienced post surgery has pointed to me making the right decision in that regard so hopefully that sticks!

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I hope your effect will last and all the symptoms will go away. I’m having surgery soon — removal of the digastric muscle and fibroses. I’m upset that IJVman doesn’t have any positive effect. I’m having surgery soon, and then this happens. I start to doubt everything.

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It is nerve racking that’s for sure. I watched the videos on the doctor you are going to and he seems very knowledgeable but the first hand testaments from some of his patients was scary for me. I can message you personally in regard to what I was talking about. I don’t want to scare you out of anything though but want you to have all the information to make the absolute best decision for yourself.

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@SCJeff I believe @Mr.Finer Nicholas is talking about a catheter cerebral angiogram and venogram with venous manometry, not a CTA scan. It’s an invasive catheter-based study where they access a blood vessel through the groin or wrist and advance a catheter/wire into the cerebral vessels. The angiogram evaluates the arterial circulation, while the venogram evaluates the venous circulation, including the jugulars. Contrast is injected, and during the venous portion they can directly measure pressure gradients at different points.

Dr. Liu has these studies done prior to surgery for additional vascular information and surgical planning, but the results are not what determines whether he proceeds with surgery.

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@Mr.Finer I look forward to seeing your postop imaging. I’m curious how far back Dr. Liu resected the styloid. He had mentioned that his higher incision approach provides better visualization and access around the facial nerve and allows him to take the styloid back to the skull base. I’m interested to see how close to the skull base the cut actually is, since “at the skull base” doesn’t always necessarily mean completely flush.

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So pleased that you’re through your surgery, and that you have seen some improvements, that’s great to hear! I hope that you carry on improving and can get back to being a fun Dad :folded_hands:

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Which doctor are you referring to? You have my mail (filatovtech@gmail.com or filatovtech@mail.ru ).

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DSA does not automatically mean that you will also have your manometric pressure measured (a catheter cerebral angiogram and venogram). All hospitals perform DSA, invasive arteriography and venography, but few measure the pressure.

Yes. Indeed, Dr. Liu has a more professional approach; he is more cautious and suggests operating on only one side first. He has the same cautious approach as Dr. Nakaji.

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@filya Nicholas is referring specifically to a catheter cerebral angiogram and venogram with venous manometry, not simply a DSA or CTA scan.

I agree that DSA alone does not automatically include pressure measurements, that is exactly the distinction. Venous manometry requires catheterization of the venous system with pressure measurements taken at specific locations, and that is the study Nicholas is describing.

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