Bilateral - one out, one remaining - still causing problems?

Hi BrooklynGirl!

I’m so glad to hear you feel even slightly improved! Hopefully your body is getting a jump on whatever caused the fluid accumulation. I’ll chalk it up to God answer the prayers He’s receiving on your behalf.

I always go back to “Slow & steady wins the race.” The tortoise & the hare fable has long been a point of reference for me in so many areas of life. The positive mindset which you’re working hard at will also go far to help with your healing.

:gift_heart:

I don’t know…sorry! Around my scars does still get tight & tender, I massage gently with oil & it helps…I know you’ve been trying to massage though. Will you have to see your GP/ PCP again about the chest xrays? If so mention it then?

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0Nu6Epf4aX98p5tUZY6W51n7Q

@BrooklynGirl,

Hi, sorry to hear you still don’t have the second x-rays results back yet, very frustrating. But happy to hear you are feeling a bit better. I have attempted to mark up your photo and set it above, maybe it will work if the “tech powers that be” are smiling on me (not usually the case). If it doesn’t come through google the muscle I have listed below :smirk:

There are no less than 10 muscles that have to be dissected in the triangle of your neck to get to the styloid. The yellow arrow points to one of the largest and biggest mover of our head called the sternocleidomastoid (SCM) which looks most promimnant in the photo. It attaches on your skull just behind your ear and then splits into two parts attaching to your collar bone as shown with the green arrows. The surgeon has to delicately separate all of these muscles (not cutting them) and then pull them apart and hold them like that to see the styloid - so they get really stretched which means limited blood flow for a bit. In addition to this there are many layers of nerves, arteries, veins and the lymph system to dissect around. It is so easy to look past this and just focus on the pesky styloid for us!

With your head back as in the picture you are putting the SCM and other muscles on a stretch - on top of being short from the “injury” of the muscle. At 8 weeks post op it would be very safe to find a professional to perform gentle soft tissue mobilization and work with the lymph system that was not directly involved with the surgery. Find someone you trust who is very well educated in the anatomy and will listen to you.

Hope this helps…good luck!

The picture came through! The tech powers that be listened.

Thank you for a well informed post. I think that I’ve missed what I should be doing all along - maybe not enough gentle massaging or stretching? It is painful to the touch so I’ve been leaving it
alone. I am scheduled to see my PCP Monday about the chest X-ray so I will have a chance to ask him. Maybe a specialist that can do soft tissue manipulation will help. I do want to start physical therapy. I am surprised that it’s not assigned as part of
the recovery.

The area above the incision is what is tight and painful. The pulled area below the incision is just that, it is being pulled by the tightness above the incision and is not painful.
I don’t think it’s the muscle. Whatever is causing this it is super uncomfortable. It feels like a setback but I have to believe that this is temporary and that I can get through this. Slow and steady wins the race.

Thank you again.

BG.

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BG,
So sorry, I misunderstood :crazy_face:
The muscle that attaches from above your incision (and entire front of the neck) to the jaw line is the platisma muscle - broad and flat so that was affected as well (amongst many other structures).
However, the skin itself can become hypersensitive and cause issues. Isaiah has mentioned ways to desensitize the area as you are alluding to. Sometimes if the skin is really sensitive a firm touch is better tolerated than the soft stroke, washcloth or pinpoint of a fork. An example of a firm touch would be to take the flat of your four fingers and place it directly on the incision and skin above it just under your jaw, then slowly draw your hand in any direction taking the skin with you, not moving across it until it doesn’t move any further. This will not be far but you will feel the pull of the skin on top of the muscle. You can gently do this an any and all directions, there is no wrong way. As long as your incision is completely closed another idea would be to let the water in the shower move across it (maybe looking up at the shower head :shower: ).

I agree this is very temporary! Your PCP should have a good PT contact for you and he/she would be able to address the hypersensitivity/restrictions. Sending you all good for the appointment on Monday and x-ray results! Enjoy the rest of the weekend :slight_smile:

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Hi BG!

When the body senses inflammation or damage in a muscle, it sends in tiny collagen cross-links which form “adhesions” to assist/strengthen the muscles. These cross-links form between injured muscle cells, and become part of our permanent muscle structure. Though adhesions serve a purpose, they can also limit the ability of a muscle to function at its full potential thus causing stiffness & even pain as other muscles try to make up for the deficit caused by the impaired muscle(s). As a long distance run/walker, I run into this problem a lot w/ muscles in my legs. The adhesions need to be “broken up” so the muscle fibers can be free to move & function as they should. (In ES speak, this is a bit like the hyoid bone being “tethered” by a calcified stylohyoid ligament except on a microscopic level i.e. muscle cells are tethered together rather than being able to move freely).

JustBreathe gave you some great advice but ultimately because your neck is healing from a major surgery, her suggestion of seeing a good PT or myofascial therapist (or both) will be your best bet for a quicker recovery. The right PT may also be able to help you get your lip back to normal function a bit sooner than nature allows.

The picture below gives you a visual of how adhesions can “tie” muscle cells together so they can’t move properly.

I hope between this info & what JustBreathe has sent, you’re able to get flexibility & comfort back in the surgical area of your neck ASAP!

:gift_heart:

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How are you this morning? Your recovery story has been full of more excitement than any of us would hope for.

I’m rubbing my scar and puffiness with a tube of coconut oil I got at Walmart 2 times a day. I might squeeze in another session today. Sometimes it helps mentally to feel like I’m doing something.

Big hugs to you. I’m feeling deflated myself this morning. Wish I could fly up there and we could whine to each other over some cheesecake or something. :blush::green_heart:

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@SewMomma @JustBreathe @Jules @Isaiah_40_31

I feel like I am complaining most of the time but I so very much appreciate the insightful tips, the knowledge and support.

The four finger massage to stretch the skin seems beneficial from the onset - while stretched taught I have more range of movement so it seems that it should work its way out over time. I have been doing light touches with varying objects to wake up the nerves as much I can stand before the tingling starts to scream back. The scar visually is healing nicely, maybe with the help of bio oil applied twice daily.

I still have many ES symptoms so I know that to fully heal from ES I will need the right side out. :scream: I am on this journey but it will take all of my resolve to stay on my slow and steady course.

It’s only 90 degrees here presently but in a few hours the temp will go up to 98 degrees!! I hope you are all cool and comfortable and enjoying this day of rest. I have no plans to go outside. I have a good book that I am going to bury myself in.

Thank you again for all of the support.
Slow and steady.
BG

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@SewMomma

I’m sorry to hear that you are having a rough go this morning. Come to Brooklyn anytime - I will have the worlds famous Junior’s cheesecake in hand to greet you.

Sending hugs back at you. :revolving_hearts:
BG

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You sound like you have a good mindset - thinking very positively. Glad you had a little feedback from the site that it likes the stretching.

No worries that you have to have the other side out. You want it out. You won’t feel better until they are both gone. This is your resting point until you are ready for round 2.

I saw there is a heat advisory up there. Stay cool. Nothing like not feeling well and then being in miserable weather. Good call to stay indoors. :cake::open_book::sun_behind_small_cloud::sparkling_heart:

Big hugs to both of you…cheesecake sounds good!

I finally (!!!) saw my PCP about the x-ray. He was not concerned about the fluid as it was not significant. My shortness of breathe has eased up when in motion but still working on that slow and steady. He said my lungs sound clear.

He does want me to do a sleep study to check for sleep apnea because I am still having trouble with the anxiety like wave that wakes me up. He thinks it may be central sleep apnea (not obstructive) - when nerve/brain signals are off. To me it feels like the flight or fight response that makes my body wake up. I had bit of this before my surgery, but rarely. Maybe now more severe from the surgery??? It was mentioned the parasympathetic nerve could have been disturbed - or something to that effect. The sleep study will hook me up to all kinds of machines and should, hopefully get me to a resolution.

I sent the pic of my neck to the surgeon and I got a response from the nurse saying that I should massage the area - just as was mentioned here. I have been doing the four finger stretches as recommended and will do more gentle massages with the bio oil.

I am sorry to complain and whine so much but I am so grateful for the non-judgmental, heartfelt support. Not that anyone is judging me, but I have had enough of this so I think that others should too.

Slow and steady and steady wins the race. Slow and steady.
BG

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You are not complaining and whining! We are all basically stating facts about the situations we are currently in!!! We need all the info so we can help and some of us like to read all these details so we don’t feel alone! Look at it as your duty to share!

Zero judgement here - 100% compassion.

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You’re not complainibg or whining! You’ve been through surgery & it hasn’t solved everything yet, & you’ve had some scary extra stuff going on; you’re quite justified in bringing your worries here! We need to be honest that surgery isn’t instant, & not always a total cure so that everyone can make an informed choice. (Equally it’s not helpful when people post day 1 after surgery when they feel bad, & don’t bother to uodate later when they’re improved like some members have in the past; we need balance!)
You’ve been really supportive & cheered on other while you were waiting for surgery, now it’s your turn to be listened too…glad that the doctor’s not worried about the fluid, & hope the sleep study can shed light on things. Big hugs!
PS- hope you’re not flooded, heard the weather’s been bad?!

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@BrooklynGirl,
Thank you for so courageously sharing your story with all of us! It is not easy to boldly face your pain and share it so openly, thank you for honoring yourself.

Good news your lungs are okay and great news that your PCP is on top of teasing out the source of your chest discomfort. Sleep studies are quite an experience - I say this tongue in cheek. The setup is very entailing and quite hilarious, be sure to get a picture for your family and close friends when you are all wired. And be prepared to got NO sleep whatsoever, the whole process is an oxymoron but somehow they come away with information that can be useful. If you have any kind of meditation practice that can be very helpful while you try to drift off with someone watching you (kind of creepy), focus on your breathing can be helpful as well. It would be wise to have it back up to a weekend or day off…just a heads up. I have been through a couple and it is comical.

Keep up the amazing recovery, the ride continues and it WILL smooth out!

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Lol, I’ve always wondered how anyone can sleep all wired up!

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@SewMomma, @JustBreathe @Jules and to all other ES sufferers here,

I do feel supported here without judgement and I thank you all for your heartfelt messages.

I have been ramping up my breathing exercises and guided meditation (via ibook and headphones) as a way to get through this and it does help. It is helping so much that I am looking for a center to attend meditation classes. If anything, it will give me something else to focus on.

I do not have a time slot for the “sleep” study as it is a now a waiting game for the insurance to come through. My doctor did tell me to try to get a Friday night slot for the study so I would have the weekend to recover - “sleep” study indeed.

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Hi BG~

I have several family members & friends who have sleep apnea. The sleep study provides little sleep :roll_eyes: as JustBreathe note, but getting a diagnosis one way or the other is a relief (kind of like w/ ES!). Most everyone I know who has ended up w/ a CPAP machine hated it initially but are very thankful they persevered in getting used to it as each one now has more fully restful nights & lots more energy during the day.

I hope your insurance gets on the ball quickly & lets you know how much they will cover. Would be nice for you to get that event checked off your list as well!

You are cared about & definitely not judged on here. When you need to verbally “unwind” we’re always here for you.

:sunflower:

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Hi my ES family!

I have an appointment with the sleep study pulmonologist next Wednesday. From there he will figure out what boxes needs to be checked off for the sleep study. I am also going to see a neurophysiologist for the intense issues most likely related to the vegus nerve.

My “sleep apnea” is not a regular thing. I have had three episodes/flair ups after a day doing more than usual. When they happen I do not sleep. :tired_face: The first 2 episodes lasted 24 hours with the 3rd one lasting 48 hour +. Its not that I am overexerting by any means - twice to the beach carrying beach gear less than 1/2 mile from the car to the water, floated a bit, lounged in the shade, had a beer -typical beach stuff. (I have only been to the beach twice after my surgery.) Another time I went to an evening local minor league game then walked on the boardwalk afterward. I don’t drink much alcohol, but it may be a factor or not. I have had a glass or two of wine during a social dinner and it did not induce an episode.

During a flair up, when the sleep issues happen, I cant even nap in a chair. Just as I start to feel the sweet taste of a nod it feels like my breathing muscles in my larynx and upper chest override the normal rhythm and wakes me, sometimes with a start or even prevents me from sleeping. I am also dealing with heartburn after not having it for years. I have not changed my diet and typically eat a pretty “clean” meal.

Another crazy thing is that I can feel when I have a pre-ventricular contraction - I feel the extra half beat like its coming out of my chest. I have had these for many years but usually cant feel them. ( I had as stress test and my doctors say it’s my normal.) When at my primary care doc yesterday (after my 48 hour episode) she wanted to capture one on an ekg. I could tell her when they were happening and she could see it on the screen. She said that it is a common event but extremely rare to be able to feel them.

To get to the point of this, is that I think that my vegus nerve is off kilter and is super sensitive. Its almost like I can feel the nerve run from my neck to my chest on the left side where I had surgery. I want to see the neurophysiologist to hopefully have him tell me that all of this is coming from an irritated vegus nerve and that maybe gabapentin will help. (The nerve drug with the least side effects).

Of course it has been said here that all of this could be coming from my remaining styloid which is doing its own, typical crazy stuff in my throat.

Its a slow, sometimes backwards and not so steady progress, but I am still doing my best to keep looking forward.

Peace,
BG

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BG - I hope they are able to help you. Please do remember - everybody reacts differently to every medication. Neurontin/Gabapentin (exact same drug) may be the perfect solution for you or may cause more symptoms (you are correct, most people tolerate it well). Pay close attention to this. With the pain you are in, I too would try it! But make sure you note the symptoms you are having now and how you feel after - write it down.

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