I went to an osteopath who said that my t2-t1-c7-c6 were locked in flexion. I think this is worsening my symptoms. He did some treatment but it was really painful while he was “massaging” and for the next few days, more painful than I’ve ever experienced before from an osteopath, so I’ve decided not to go back. Does anyone know how to unlock this area with exercises? Things I’ve tried so far:
Stretching the upper traps but there’s no more stretch to be had
To try to strengthen the upper traps I did shoulder shrugs but this made everything a lot worse and my anxiety symptoms came back, did read somewhere that traps can cause anxiety symptoms…
Tried to release the front of my neck but again there’s not much stretch left
Chin tucks, makes me feel much worse in the throat area
Diaphragm breathing which does help everything release but I find this really hard to do sitting or standing, although I’m going to keep trying
I recently saw this video which was a critical review of Kjetil Larson’s (MSK neurology) routine for Bryan Johnson (Blueprint project) on how to improve IJV stenosis using postural exercises. One of the exercises this guy recommends is one to improve extension in the cervicothoracic region. https://youtu.be/ZbBYm8SgHAU?si=d74Kd09oVK1oNERi
Don’t know if it’s worth trying these but maybe @vdm would have better ideas
@11bravo - It may be that the video @LimeZest was linking has been taken down or the link has changed. The link @Jules sent is from our forum & has tons of great information relative to how to improve posture.
For anyone interested in this topic, my experience has been very similar to @Skatkat, in that a lot of my nerve symptoms get triggered by any exercises to my muscles innerveated by the SAN and because my front neck muscles are so weak, chin tucks only switch on my back neck muscles (which again triggers the SAN/Vagus symptoms). But what has been working is focussing on proper alignment of the lower body and starting to strengthen the spine from the lumbar first. I’ve managed to reduce intermittent hip pain I was getting from an old injury which I realised was also making my spine twist forward on the right.
The Physio I am seeing use the MedX Medical Lumbar Extension Machine and some of their other equipment. I’m based in NZ but I think this is an American invention.
I’m having a lot of issues post op with my SAN and Vagus nerve after a bad flare up but I was starting to see some relief and changes to my posture before this.
The MedX machine looks like an amazing piece of equipment, @BraveKat. I see from the site that it also works for cervical problems. I’ll have to check around to see if any PT practice in my area has one as I have both lumbar & cervical challenges though different & not as painful as yours. I’m old enough now that I don’t want things to progress so nipping them in the bud would be a good idea.
That would be great if you could find one, it definitely feels like a full spine work out when I use it but with a lot of focus on starting at the base and imagine as you get stronger and more freed up the machine can adjust to make more of the spinal zones work harder. The equipment is very popular with 60+ patrons - I’ve even convinced both my parents to go. Hope you find it close by.
Looks like they have a lumbar and cervical machine. I think my Physio only has the lumbar one but I’m finding that a really good base to setup alignment up the spine, as well as working on leg alignment (hip,knee,feet).
I think this is what I need, all my symptoms started a couple of months after a slipped disc flare up at L4-5. My lower back has always been an issue since having my first child, I had Coccydynia to start with, then it travelled up my spine which each disc slipping. It’s been unbearable over the years but funnily enough, in 2021 when my neck issues started, my lower back stopped hurting. I do feel like I can’t keep myself upright anymore though, if I sit on a squashy seat like a sofa it’s very difficult and the neck symptoms get worse. If I’m a passenger in the car or on the bus it’s worse as well, I sort of end up bent over and leaning to the right hand side and twisted forward a bit on the right as well. I probably need to start with strengthening the bottom and work up.
There isn’t, but I’m thinking that there must be other exercises that replicate this, I’ve found that doing the bird/dog exercise helps with my lower back. I’ve been doing some “hinge” exercises because I’ve noticed that I otherwise avoid bending my lower back at all costs now. I’m thinking to get a personal trainer who can help with all of this.
@Skatkat - You might want to see a physical therapist first unless the trainer you see has a PT background. My experience w/ trainers is they like to push a client, sometimes beyond where they should, because they don’t understand the client’s limitations. If you lay a foundation based on a PT’s expertise, then you can work more safely w/ a trainer because you’ll already have a foundation.
This sounds quite similar to me, in that when I’m sitting down, if I can’t keep a very rigid position (I compensate by lifting my feet onto the chair/seat base to help kind of lock myself in one spot), I have such a hard time with pain and symptoms - especially if I’m in a flared up state. My head is just too heavy to hold, and I imagine that’s because of years of not using my full spine correctly, on top of the eagles which even further promotes forward head posture. Since doing the lumbar work, I am able to hold through the lower spine more but it’s very tiring and then makes diaphragm breathing more difficult. As I get stronger though, I can tell I’ll be in the right place to start strengthening the upper spine and neck muscles.
I went to the chiropractor yesterday (first time since surgery) who did a great job releasing the tension that had built up over the last few weeks of my flare up. Since then I’ve done some reading on CCI and while I’m not sure if I have it, I can relate to a lot of the symptom triggers like reaching forwards and sitting at the computer. I’ve realised the chin tuck type work is far above where I am at in terms of the strength of my front of neck and so have focussed on just mentally engaging with the front of neck muscles individually, tensing and holding them to start getting the connection back to the brain. While doing this I make sure my SCM and back of neck muscles are soft/neutral. I do this by lying on an elevated pillow and slightly tucking my chin (only a bit so that I’m not feeling my trap). It’s feeling quite good. I’ll try this for the next few days before advancing to this exercise regime I found on the centeno Schultz website.
If these don’t work for me, it might indicate CCI.
Thank you for the link to the Centeno-Schulz Clinic, @BraveKat. It should come in handy for a number of our members who may be wondering about CCI. I sure hope you don’t end up being diagnosed with it on one hand, but on the other, it would help explain the pain struggles you’re still having. I think the cervical spine & lumbar exercises you’re doing sound great & I hope they work together to help create better stability & recovery from your current pain & other symptoms.
You’ve been a great example of taking care of yourself post op & making every effort to help your body heal even if it’s time consuming & requires patience to do so.
Thanks for this, I also initially thought I had CCI/AAI because my symptoms matched and I also have a hard time looking at screens which is a symptom of AAI but I had my scans at Medserena in London and AAI was a definite no, CCI was also a no but my Grabb Oakes measurement was 8.1 which is in the borderline section (I would’ve preferred something like 6 or 7) the cut off for pathological in the UK is 9. I constantly feel lots of clicking at the base of my skull. In 2009 I fainted face down and hit my chin on the floor, so I don’t know if that started it all off but I didn’t get symptoms until 2021. I also hold my tongue and lower jaw forwards which is also a stabilising action for the head. I think my difficulty with the exercise you described is that I struggle to switch off the SCM and when I do a really small chin tuck (the bit before the SCM activates) I can’t actually feel anything happening. I’ll keep trying though because it does sound like perhaps The deep next flexors are switched off and I’m using other muscles to compensate.
It may have been suggested before, if so I’m sorry, I can’t remember, but have you tried a soft collar at all? Obviously you need to strengthen the neck muscles, but it might give you a bit of a rest & a break for a time?
@Skatkat - Chin tucks aren’t the best neck exercises for everyone. There may be something else that would work better for you. You could try Googling “exercises to strengthen the muscles at the front of the neck” to see if anything comes up that looks doable for you w/o causing further pain/injury.
I was using one in the early weeks of recovery but stopped when I started getting some vagus nerve improvement. Thanks for the suggestion, I’ll pull it back out and see how I get on.
