Thank you much appreciated.
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When you look at that scan where the clips are I canāt really tell myself where they were placed or if this could be what Iām feeling in my throat. The young Dr couldnāt even tell me I know they are small but Iām just trying to narrow things down as both sides are being effected. I literally feel something stuck in my throat and it scratches all day long when Iām talking and swallowing.
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Sometimes the feeling of something stuck in your throat isnāt actually something poking but a nerve sensation, the glossopharyngeal nerve or the vagus nerve, not sure if thatās helpful to know, but it may be you donāt actually have something digging inā¦ Iām sorry that your doctor isnāt helping you any longer, itās frustrating for you but we often see that when surgery doesnāt help as much as expected & a doctor doesnāt have the answers! And I wouldnāt necessarily take too much notice of other doctors who say you didnāt need the surgery, as many ENTs tell people that with ES when clearly there are styloids impacting nerves & blood vessels. Iām not trying t make light of what youāre going through now, I just donāt want you to feel that youāve been through all this when you it wasnāt necessary. Sending you a hug and hope that youāre able to get some help, maybe from Dr Dewan 
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Thank you. So my question is when people have this nerve sensation does it come with really bad pain as the day goes on with swallowing and talking? Also does it cause choking or food to get stuck? No one can really explain why my neck is so hard down the muscle but Iām sure that Dr was right with the jugular vein compression. I feel it on both upper sides of the hyoid bone and when I press on that area from the outside the pain gets worse. On the right side where the neck is hard I can slightly feel the top of the bone on the inside of my throat but like I said it feels like itās sitting underneath the skin itās no longer like the other side free flowing in my throat and when I had that hematoma is when everything changed. I appreciate your help.
@ShelbyH - Some of our members have been diagnosed with Clicking Larynx Syndrome which is caused by excess calcification of thyroid cartilage & the hyoid bone (Dr. Dewan also does surgery for that), & I think that can also cause symptoms like the ones you have.
Hereās a link to a research article about it:
and a discussion on our forum:
Talking & vocal changes is a symptom of ES, yes. Weāve had quite a few members who have had to give up singing, and some who talk alot with their job like teachers who havenāt been able to. Choking is common too, @Isaiah_40_31 found that she did have trouble with this. I would guess that maybe the nerves can interfere with the sensation to muscles needed for swallowing, but lots of members have been referred for swallow studies which usually are normal. (although we have had a few with uneven muscle tone affecting swallowing & making it abnormal)
I wish we could give you some definite answers as to whatās going on, Iām sorry
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Hi @ShelbyH I am sorry to hear that you are still having problems after your Hyoid surgery. I just wondered if you are on any medication. I to have problems will swallowing, mostly liquids & pain which gradually gets worse as the day goes on. I havenāt had any relief from the nerve pain medication, but it was suggested on here that I try a muscle relaxant, which I believe is giving me some relief with my tight neck muscles. Although I do have to crush mine as I have swallowing difficultyā¦yuk! Maybe worth a try to tie you over, if you havenāt already. I hope you manage to get access to your scans so you can upload the axial views for other members here to give you their opinion.
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@ShelbyH I hypothesize based on your symptoms that itās either your greater horns of the hyoid or your thyroid cartilage scraping against arteries. Wonāt know until I can see your imaging
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So I found out yesterday they are the surgery clips. This Dr never told me he was putting them in me never put them in the surgery notes nothing. I went to a head and neck cancer Dr and he confirmed what I thought. The feeling is awful you can actually feel the top of them as they are shaped like an arch pushing into my throat. The worst part about that Dr is that I went to him months ago in so much pain and he completely dismissed me. This has caused so much havoc in my neck as itās pressing on muscles making them spasm on one side causing major headaches cause the hard spasm muscle is pushing on my jugular vein. The other side is numb as itās pushing near a nerve and I have random things popping out of my neck. What a mess anymore I feel as though I canāt catch a break with all of this. I knew I could actually feel something physically by touching it and mentally by feeling it in my throat. Is there any drs on this list from Michigan other than Dr Ramirez that would help me out? Iām not letting just anyone go in here anymore. I need someone really advanced and probably older to do this surgery. Thank you in advance
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@ShelbyH Iām so glad youāve gotten an answer to the cause of your pain. It seems like normal practice for doctors who use surgical clips not to mention them in the operation report or even to the patient. Iām not sure why there isnāt a law that the use of surgical clips should be part of a mandatory pre-op discussion since it seems like there are a number of people whoāve had problems with them post op when they didnāt even know they had surgical clips in their bodies. We have another member currently (@bdys) who may be suffering from your same problem though sheās still trying to get clarification.
These are the other doctors we have on our Doctors List for your state. You can try contacting one or all of them to see if anyone would be willing to remove your surgical clips. It can be difficult to find a doctor who is willing to do that surgery.
ā¢Dr Candice Colby-Scott (co-wrote a research paper on ES/ SHCS, but told one member sheās not doing surgery any more)
https://health.usnews.com/doctors/candice-colby-scott-678345
ā¢Dr Gregory Artz, Grand Rapids ENT, 1425 Michigan St. NE, Suite A, Grand Rapids, (616) 459-4514,
ā¢Dr. Danielle Bottalico - https://my.clevelandclinic.org/staff/30422-danielle-bottalico (Looks for specific symptoms to be present or wonāt diagnose ES)
I hope one of the doctors whose names Iāve given you will be able to help you.
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Oh no, thatās not good, but at least you have an idea whatās causing your painā¦ would the head & neck doctor who confirmed the clip be able to help you otherwise?
Itās no consolation to you, but we have heard from another member that they could potentially cause issues with chiropractor adjustments, so I have now put this on the list of questions to ask a doctor before surgery.
It makes sense that these could cause issues post-surgery, I hope that you can find someone to remove them 
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So the dr that found this is worried about scar tissue to go back in and remove them but seeing this is causing multiple issues with swallowing extreme pain in the throat muscle spasms headaches and nerve pain going in outweighs the scar tissue. His thought was to do multiple rounds of shots to take away the pain but he did one on Friday and it lasted two hours his hope it would last weeks to months. These have to come out so here I am starting from scratch to figure out which Dr will go in and help me. Most drs these days donāt want to deal with someone elseās mess up. Itās very hard finding good drs in my opinion.
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Iām sorry that the injection didnāt last longer, and I hope that you can find one to remove the clips, @bdys is probably having the same issues as you, sheās sending images to Dr Osborne in CA, but obviously itās a long way for you to go
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Can I ask what her symptoms are? Mine are the headaches, throat pain is debilitating, neck is hard and tight, nerve pain, and choking on food. The headaches aches are coming from the one side of my neck where itās hard. The dr the other day said he didnāt see any jv compression or nerve compression but the neurosurgeon said I have low blood flow on the side where my neck is hard so idk what to think anymore about the headaches. I have one dr saying one thing and another saying something else. Has anyone on here ever had two drs collaborate in surgery such as a ent and neurosurgeon at the same time?
@ShelbyH - Here is the discussion where @bdys discusses her symptoms:
Dr. Costantino is an ENT skull based surgeon who works together w/ a neurosurgeon to do IJV decompression surgeries that coincide with ES so anyone on our forum whoās had surgery w/ Dr. Costantino has had two doctors collaborating in surgery. This is also true of Dr. Cognetti when he operates on a patient w/ IJV compression.
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I know Dr Ramirez was on the list in Michigan to do these surgeries but I found out this morning the hospital let him go so he no longer works there anymore. Just to update the section for drs
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Hi @ShelbyH Iām sorry to hear that you have surgical clips left in your neck which must be very frustrating to go through surgery then to find out this news. I hope you manage to get this fixed. Does anyone know the reason why these clips are left in and is this common practice. I havenāt heard of this in the UK.
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Thank you. I just found out the dr that did this surgery was let go so I canāt even get answers specifically from him. I guess itās a legality if I go somewhere else I was told because he did the surgery and the insurance paid out that if I go somewhere else to get this fixed I could have problems. They are supposedly getting a new ent surgeon soon in that office and basically heās going to be cleaning up a whole lot of mess this Dr left. Iām not even sure if these surgical clips were put in for blood vessels or anything else. There is only three of them and two we can see are pushing straight up into my throat where you can feel the top of them from the inside of my throat. I just really hope I get help soon cause this pain is unbearable anymore.
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@Rosie - Apparently surgical clips are put in during surgeries when small veins/arteries are cut. The clips stop the cut vessels from leaking blood into the surgical site making it more challenging to operate. Itās not uncommon practice for them to be left in as they are considered to be benign & unobtrusive.
Weāve had several members, including another one currently whoās having pain & terrible symptoms potentially from ill placed surgical clips, I think that practice needs to be reviewed & reconsidered by the medical board, at least in the US. Doctors donāt have to tell their patients ahead of time that they might put in surgical clips, & they donāt have to tell them post op either, but I think it should be MANDATORY that the clip info be discussed pre-op & included in a surgical report in case problems involving the clips do show up later.
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Wow thats interesting @Isaiah_40_31 thank you for that information. I have been following our other members issues with these surgical clips. Leaving clips in the neck with so many nerve & vascular structures seems like asking for trouble. Its strange that they are not mentioned in any post operative reports either, especially if an MRI is needed in the future. When I had an MRI I had to supply the provider with a post operative report to confirm all metal work had been removed from a previous operation.
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