Too many symptoms, too much time, with imaging

Hey folks, grateful to connect with you all. TLDR below.

I’ve been on a hellish journey and I know y’all can understand the feeling. Here’s a novel describing most of my issues prior to now:

I’ve had (mostly) right sided ear pain all of my life, tubes as a kid, and developed tinnitus in my teens. 16 years ago I saw OMFS for charlie horses under my right jaw and pain in my right face in general– received the ubiquitous TMJD and myofascial pain syndrome dx and was instructed to use my fist to keep my yawn smaller, which mostly works for the spasms, yay. In my early 20s I checked in with ENT about constant right ear pain, and docs told me “eustacian tube dysfunction”–cool, I’ve got allergies, that makes sense. Fast forward a few years and it turns out I had a golf ball sized benign tumor removed from my right maxilla – fwhew, that must’ve been it the whole time, thanks doc.

Annoyingly, as I’m sure you’ve all experienced, in general, the symptoms persisted and worsened. Right eye pain starts coming on, then the visual distortions set in (pulsing vision, trouble holding gaze on details), and many many workups reveal nothing much to speak about… “You’ve got dry eye, use these eye drops”. I learn about “visual snow syndrome” which explains the dots I thought were atoms as a kid. Then began the sense my right lung wouldn’t inflate fully at the base somehow, like my diaphragm wasn’t working right–as a musician of many years I was intimately familiar with how it felt to use my diaphragm, but another extensive work up didn’t show much past bad asthma. Along with mostly right sided headaches?–I’ve never been sure what to call them–but my head often feels heavy and I have one kind of pain in the back of my head/upper neck, and a fairly common throbbing in my right eye/cheek/upper clavicle/ear area much of the time, usually much worse when laying down. My PCP ordered many tests which came back largely unremarkable. Clearly I must be bonkers, health anxiety isnt uncommon, so I spent a lot of time and effort convincing myself I merely have anxiety and to chill…. maybe meditation will make all these painful sensations go away.

A few years later I am diagnosed with a rare genetic connective tissue disorder, which seemed like it could be the issue. While some symptoms weren’t explained, for instance when bending over my right face starts throbbing and my right eye feels like it’s being punched from behind. My visual issues seemed worse, as though the world pulsed with each heart beat. The doctors said avoid bending over so you don’t have the sensation. Okay…

Fast forward to 2 years ago and I start feeling like I can’t quite swallow properly… on the right side. The other symptoms remained, but I’d come to accept I’m a lunatic instead of sensing something outside of my brain. Food felt as though it was getting stuck, and I knew I had felt a slight choking sensation when turning my head toward the right but by this point it was a very strong choking sensation and came with a variety of stabbing/pulling/object sensations… in my right neck, but also radiating to my lower tongue, gums, ear with sensations of fullness and tickling and tingling, up my cheeks/cheek bones/temples, even stretching down to my shoulder a bit. This is undeniable–never have I had to take multiple swallows for food, and my ear had never felt like I was sitting on my foot. Infection, maybe, since I’m clearly crazy and they’ve scanned everything??? So I go digging around in my tonsils with a q-tip to check for tonsil stones and see a white cyst on the tonsil… aha, that must be aggravating my throat. I see 2 private practice ENTs who can’t find the cyst and suggest I see a therapist, and a third at an academic institution who says “Oh yea there’s the cyst right there… but I think it’s a red herring. This sounds like eagle syndrome or glossopharyngeal neuralgia, let’s get a scan, and I’ll send you to my colleague who knows a bit more about ES than me”.

So, 2 years ago was the first time I came across Living with Eagle, filled with descriptions of all my symptoms, and a slew of scans showing very obvious bone chunks in the neck. Since I studied bio in college, and these bones are obvious, I figured I’d take a stab at looking at my own past scans and, low and behold, mild–but present–ossification of my stylohyoid ligament. Perhaps more relevant in my case, in the process of learning enough of the anatomy to understand axial images I noticed another weird thing–my right external carotid artery is in the wrong place. Instead of sitting lateral to my hyoid greater cornu, it’s medial. Hmm.

Now, of course, neither of these pieces of information were included in any radiologists report, so I bring it up to the slightly-more-familiar-with-ES ENT and he goes “eh, I’m not sure Eagle Syndrome is real, and it sounds like the surgeries for it often don’t resolve symptoms, so lets just take out your tonsils”. Okay, reasonable, he’s the boss, I’ve had tonsil stones, I’ll do anything to resolve the pain. By then, I was also getting flashes of white light in the corner of my vision and ever-more-regular pulsations in my right face/head/neck, so pretty much would do anything to feel like my brain wasn’t rotting in my head.

Tonsil surgery did solve the problem of my tonsils hurting, because they were gone, but no resolution of other symptoms. This was a year ago. I’ve been to PT, SLP, and now back to PT while I trial gabapentin for the neurologist. PT#2 discovered a bunch of significant atrophy in my upper right shoulder/back, and, you guessed it it’s all right sided. I’ve since then, thanks to radiopedia and Netter’s, also explored my images and noticed a few other anomalies in my scans, including an extended right thyroid superior cornu which appears to be pressing strongly into my neck also in the general area of pain, and an occipital artery branching off and wrapping around the internal carotid. Frustratingly these also weren’t mentioned on rads reports. My swallow study by the SLP showed obvious asymmetry with my swallow, but the SLP reported it symmetric and radiology apparently doesnt read the A/P view in their modified barium swallow studies? This is not inspiring faith in the academic institution I attended, but what can I possibly know they dont?

I’m here cause I’ve learned so much, and ya’ll seem to be the internet experts of weird head/neck issues adjacent to the stylohyoid chain. The docs keep seeing me, and keep ordering imaging, and seem to not be talking to each other at all? Frankly it seems to me the answers are in already in the images… so I’ve included several, perhaps you’ll see something helpful and can offer a suggestion… I just know I’m exhausted, frustrated, in so much pain all the time I cannot function which is so demoralizing, and it’s getting worse despite physician recommendations.

There are lots of random other symptoms: my right jaw feels like it’s hanging at the joint, and I catch myself resting my tongue between my teeth to stabilize. I have constant pulsations in clavicle shoulder area, right, especially when laying on right side… many symptoms seem worse, like eye dancing, head pulsations, etc. I can’t sleep through the night anymore due to neck discomfort waking me up. Any light pressure on the right side of my neck feels like choking. I often feel vertigo, like my right eye wants to roll back in my head and I’m being pulled backwards. Tinnitus is non stop, and when I eat/swallow/wear headphones I get pulsatile tinnitus. Pain on swallowing is near ubiquitious. I’ve started getting these brief episodes of ear fullness with heavy ringing and going mostly deaf to outside noises, which last 10-20 seconds. When turning to the left I often feel vertigo and have lost balance; when this happens to be a stair case, the whole thing feels unstable and like it’s rocking back and forth while I step up. I have a constant sense of drainage in my right throat area. If I turn left too fast I get a lightning strike behind right mastoid area.

This is a lot, I know, and I’m hopeful something may resonate. I’m exhausted and it’s too many symptoms to even remember/share for a single appointment – the docs glaze over as much as I do, it’s a lot. And yet it definitely seems very stylohyoid chain adjacent, if not on the money.

I wish I had better words for my existing doctors, or a doctor to visit familiar with these symptoms, if they’re sufficiently connected. Here are some scans for those interested, maybe someone has some ideas I can share with one of my doctors. I’m definitely at a loss and the pain constant and debilitating.

Thanks so much yall.

TLDR: I stress-typed out a novel explaining my ~20 year journey accumulating the following right-sided symptoms:

EAR/HEARING:

  • Lifelong right ear pain

  • Tinnitus (constant, since teens)

  • Pulsatile tinnitus when eating/swallowing/wearing headphones

  • Ear fullness, tickling, and tingling sensations

  • Brief episodes (10-20 seconds) of ear fullness with heavy ringing and temporary deafness

EYES/VISION:

  • Right eye pain

  • Visual distortions (pulsing vision, trouble holding gaze on details)

  • Visual snow syndrome (seeing dots)

  • Flashes of white light in corner of vision

  • World pulses with each heartbeat

  • When bending over: right eye feels punched from behind

  • Feeling like right eye wants to roll back

  • Dry eye

HEAD/FACE:

  • Right facial pain (general)

  • Heavy head feeling

  • Pain in back of head/upper neck

  • Throbbing in right eye/cheek/upper clavicle/ear area

  • When bending over: right face throbs

  • Regular pulsations in right face/head/neck

  • Pain radiating up cheeks/cheekbones/temples

JAW:

  • Charlie horses under right jaw

  • Right jaw feels like it’s hanging at the joint

  • Resting tongue between teeth to stabilize jaw

NECK/THROAT/SWALLOWING:

  • Difficulty swallowing properly on right side

  • Food feels stuck

  • Choking sensation when turning head right (very strong)

  • Stabbing/pulling/object sensations in right neck

  • Pain radiating to lower tongue, gums

  • Light pressure on right neck feels like choking

  • Constant drainage sensation in right throat area

  • Pain on swallowing (nearly always)

  • Lightning strike sensation behind right mastoid when turning left quickly

CHEST/BREATHING:

  • Right lung won’t inflate fully at base

MUSCULOSKELETAL:

  • Pain stretching down to shoulder

  • Constant pulsations in clavicle/shoulder area (especially when lying on right side)

  • Significant atrophy in upper right shoulder/back

  • Can’t sleep through night due to neck discomfort

NEUROLOGICAL/BALANCE:

  • Vertigo (being pulled backwards)

  • Vertigo and loss of balance when body turning left

  • Stairs feel unstable/rocking when body turning left

POSITIONAL/TRIGGERS:

  • All symptoms worse when lying down

  • Symptoms worse when lying on right side

  • Symptoms triggered by bending over

  • Symptoms triggered by turning head right

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neck

axial st 921images

swallowap

@neckpoke - Just reading your story is :hot_face: :hot_face:! You’ve certainly been through it all!! I believe your gut feeling is correct that much of what you still have going on is related to your styloids, hyoid, & potentially vascular compression.

From your current description, I’d say you have internal jugular vein compression possibly being caused by your styloid/C1 & based on the pictures you posted, more by C1 (I’m assuming the sagittal image is your right side). With your note that your right external carotid artery is in the wrong place, I suspect you may also have ICA/ECA irritation/compression being caused by the right greater horn of your hyoid. The issue more likely is that the right greater horn of your hyoid is elongated & has come between your ICA & ECA just above the carotid bifurcation. We’ve been seeing more of this recently as well as having more members who seem to have symptoms & scan evidence of both ES & HBS.

I recommend you get an appointment w/ Dr. Costantino in NY to get his opinion. Dr. Dewan in Louisiana is our “go to” for Hyoid Bone Syndrome. See Dr. Costantino first & discuss the hyoid vs carotid issue with him to see what he says. Your case is pretty complicated so it may take a couple more doctor’s opinions/surgeries to get you to a point of recovery.

•Dr Peter Costantino, 4 Westchester Park Dr, 4th floor, White Plains, (914) 517-8056
http://www.nyhni.org/find-a-physician/Peter-D-Costantino-MD,FACS

•Dr. Karuna Dewan, Ochsner LSU Health Shreveport - Academic Medical Center - Specializes in Hyoid Bone Syndrome surgeries
1541 Kings Hwy, Shreveport, Louisiana, 1-318-626-0050

I’ve annotated a couple of your images but please don’t take my guesses as diagnostic. You have lost the lordotic curve in your cervical spine which can also contribute to the symptoms you have by bringing the styloids & hyoid closer to the nerves & vascular tissues in your neck thus increasing the chance they will “meet” in an unfriendly way. There are gentle PT exercises that can help restore the curve (see the link below) or explore the Denneroll (Cervical Combination Order).

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I agree with @Isaiah_40_31 about the IJV compression, & the C1 process looks pretty big & very involved…Your symptoms do sound like IJV compression and possibly intracranial hypertension too.

There’s info in this section about symptoms & possible causes if you haven’t seen it:

ES Information: Common Symptoms And Possible Explanations For Them - Welcome / Newbies Guide to Eagle Syndrome - Living with Eagle

Your IJV does look quite broad lower down your neck, I wonder if there’s some compression further down, have you looked into TOS symptoms?

It’s a shame we can’t see your hyoid on those scans, although hopefully @TML can take a look at the axial clip, I’m not very good at reading those.

But certainly as @Isaiah_40_31 says, it’s worth trying to see Dr Costantino, as he would be able to see what we can see on those scans, just so frustrating that the other doctors you’ve seen & the radiologists couldn’t!!

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Hi! Thanks for taking the time to read my unhinged wine fueled rant of distress y’all – I do very much appreciate it.

I figured out how to annotate and included some slices below, as well as a few 3d stills to demonstrate hyoid/carotid and sh ligament/vessel relationships, since the .gifs seem to be a bust. Thanks to this forum, about a year ago I saw folks street-reading their scans for some signs and symptoms, and spent a ton of time using netter’s anatomy and radiopedia to get my grip on stuff. Hopefully this is helpful, and maybe helps someone else with their anatomy!

See: vasculature medial to hyoid on the left side of image (meaning right side of patient for folks unfamiliar!), whereas the vasculature is lateral to the hyoid on the right side of image (left side of patient). You can also see the left extended greater cornu of thyroid cartilage in this image, which is more extended than the right. I’ve read that the stylohyoid ligament can ossify as a result of stress, and I’m wondering if that’s the case here – in my swallow study above, you can see where there is an impression on the right side of the screen (left side of throat), so I’m wondering if I’ve got some pharyngeal weakness on the right and the left has been overcompensating to complete the swallow, thus the ossification of the cartilage to help stabilize itself. I wonder if the possible weakness on the right is the result of nerve impingement by either the hyoid or sh ligament.

This view shows the side view, demonstrating the vessels are medial to the hyoid, which has been reported in case studies to cause both tethering effect (tugging the vessels around) and impingement effects (simply poking and causing damage over time, also reported to cause stroke and atherosclerosis).

A third view of the hyoid/carotid relationship

More superior in neck to show what seems like mild ijv compression in this position. The scm is also immediately lateral to the IJV at this point, which could possibly compress further, especially since these pictures are taken laying down leading to low muscle tone, which likely changes when muscles stabilizing the head against gravity activate.

3d view showing hyoid/carotid relationship on both sides, as well as sh ligament calcified on both sides, right longer than left.

3d view of hyoid hugging the vessels.

3d view showing ossified sh ligament coursing quit close to several important vessels. You can see the ECA follows directly adjacent to sh ligament and also loops around it right at the pokey part.

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Hi Jules! Thanks for reading and replying, and your thoughtful suggestions.

I have lately begun to wonder about TOS, especially given the muscle atrophy relative to the brachial plexus, as well as the size of the right IJV. Honestly it didn’t cross my mind before this pulsing sensation has become more obvious above my clavicle in the last year–wondering if maybe some sort of congestion below is leading to signs above? So many things to think though, I swear the more I learn the less I know!

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Thank you Isaiah! I appreciate your annotations and suggestions, and took your cues to provide some too… the one you provided showing the pancake is at the level of the hyoid, so I think the lucency is probably cortical bone. It’s be neat if there was a way to include video files so folks could scroll through the images like a PACS, but I have no idea how that would work on a forum. I will definitely reach out to Dr. Constantino’s office, though cost is a large concern in my case, unfortunately…

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@neckpoke - Good for you educating yourself so thoroughly in reading the CT slices. I love your annotations. They are very helpful in identifying the many shapes that show up in a CT slice at some levels.

Thank you for the correction about what I pointed out. I was dubious it was the IJV because its coloring made it look like bone, but I figured it was at least worth mentioning, just in case…

Looks like you have a number of things going on between your stylohyoid ligaments & the greater horns of your hyoid.

If you have medical insurance that covers you for an out of state doctor, you should have no problem getting coverage to see Dr. Costantino, however, it seems more & more insurance companies are causing patients to jump through many hoops to get approval to see an out of state specialist. If you encounter that problem, there have been some recent, good discussions about how to deal w/ that. Most doctors’ offices will also try to help get insurance apporval to whatever extent they’re able.

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@neckpoke just correcting one of your labels. See attached. The muscle compressing your IJV is your posterior digastric muscle. The SCM muscles are the outer most soft tissues. This is important because some members need posterior digastric removed during surgery for IJV decompression.

Compression by the SCM if evident is usually down lower. The IJV can get compressed between the SCM and anterior scalenes.

Glad that another member is learning how to interpret the axial view. I actually posted an axial view video tutorial on the forum.

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Hey, thanks so much for the correction TML, that makes a lot of sense–I want to understand neck musculature better, every system is a rabbit hole in radiology with so much to learn. I’ll check out your tutorial for sure, kind of you to put it out there.

Would you be willing to share any insight on what I might’ve missed in my scans or interpretation? I’m very novice, and don’t know what I don’t know, for sure. Thanks again! Everyone on the forum is awesome to offer their time helping folks suffering through this stuff.

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Thank you very much for the recommendations, I plan to reach out to his office today–will update if/when I get an appointment with how it goes.

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If you feel comfortable, you can upload your DICOM files into a google drive and private message me a link and I can go through them and point out anything that jumps out at me? I’ve done this for previous members and it seemed helpful to them.

You wouldn’t be anonymous to me but I won’t be saving anything to my computer or releasing private information to the forum.

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Thanks again for all your input @TML !

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Hi @neckpoke . I just wanted to reach out & let you know that I had surgery with Dr. Costantino a little over a year ago & he does remove the posterior belly of the digastric muscle during the surgery. I’m thinking that he might be one of the only surgeons that regularly does that during the decompression surgery. I also had shoulder issues & he found that the Spinal Accessory Nerve and IJV were tangled together. So there is a lot that can be going on in that area. If you have any specific questions about the surgery, please feel free to ask me. It sounds like you’ve been through quite a bit trying to figure out what is going on. I totally understand (as do most people on this forum). It’s so weird that very few healthcare providers are familiar with Eagle syndrome. I just went for a carotid ultra sound today which was supposed to be one for looking at the IJV flow, but that wasn’t what the doc put on the order. Anyway, the tech there said he’d never heard of ES & went ahead and looked at my IJVs anyway because he was curious. Of course, he only looked in one position which as you know, different positions can cause different levels of compression. Anyway, at least my left IJV is still open and functioning from the surgery, so that’s good. Also, I live in VA too, but haven’t found any docs here that seem to be familiar ES. It would be great if we didn’t have to travel to NY for medical care. Please let me know if you come across any doctors in our state. I did see one in Richmond that mentioned ES as a possibility but said that surgery probably wasn’t necessary for me. However, once he mentioned ES, I started investigating & found this forum.. It is a wealth of info & everyone here is so helpful. I’m glad you were able to find it too. It helps a lot to have all of the input from others who’ve been on this journey. You can be encouraged that you’re on the right track now in figuring out what is going on & that there are physicians out there who can help.

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Hi @TML I’ve been reading various posts & just want to thank you for taking the time to review the images for so many people. I know they appreciate it & it is super helpful to have someone walk you through what can be seen on the images. You do such a great job helping everyone understand their imaging.

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@vap thank you so much for that, I really appreciate it! I stumbled across this forum about half a year ago ish. I wouldn’t be getting surgery soon if it wasn’t for the discovery. So now I pay it forward the best I can.

Over the past month or so I’ve been writing about my journey. About my symptom journey, doctor misdiagnosis, failure of the Canadian healthcare system, and more. I think I may write a book about it, as I have a somewhat unique case where I have both ES and hyoid bone syndrome, and there’s no medical literature about the combined presentation.

Just yesterday I read Malvin Young’s new book about his ES journey titled “The Silent Scream”. It was a great read and really resonated with the ES community. It really filled me with hope. He dives in about his early symptoms, his debilitation, his long awaited discovery of ES, his surgery experience, and provides information about ES in general, stories about other people living with ES, and a toolkit guide for getting help with ES. I recommend the book to everyone in this forum.

I think there is need for another book. One that more so targets the medical community. I don’t think there needs to be an ES community full of people looking for answers for their debilitating symptoms - there doctors should just know what it is and treat it immediately.

I’m a PhD clinical psychology student, so I’m well-versed in searching and citing scientific research. The reason why I’m getting surgery is because I was able to convince my surgeon with undisputable case studies and radiology literature. I think I could write a book that includes CT imaging, theories linking my specific symptoms with specific imaging of the upper neck, and citing all the literature that aligns with the theory. Inevitably there will be many radiologists and doctors who scoff at what they sre reading, but if I can convince even a handful of health professionals then I’ve done my job!

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I second what @vap has said about your help @TML , it’s very much appreciated… A book for professionals would be fantastic, & with your qualifications, experience & knowledge, it should hopefully be taken seriously!

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I agree with you that the medical community should be familiar with ES, enough that they could actually consider it for patients who come in the the kinds of symptoms that we have. I can tell you that most of the medical people that I’ve encountered even after my surgery do not know about it at all, including doctors, nurse practitioners, nurses, & ultrasound techs. There are some pretty definitive characteristics with the styloid process and C1 transverse process that can make diagnosis pretty easy. The symptoms can be so varied (although there are also a lot of similarities) that I think that is what throws most clinicians off. However, if they had the info and were trained to know what to look for I think that would be so helpful for people who are suffering. As you know, it’s not always the only thing going on, but if it can be diagnosed and addressed then at least people can start feeling better. I think it would be awesome for you to write a book about it. Please let us know if you do so we can read it. It seems that you have quite a knack for reading the CT scans, so it would be great to include that imaging in the book as well. I know that I was very thankful that I found this forum. I remember telling my husband that I think I found “my people” because I finally came across discussions here where people were discussing things that I had going on, while the doctors were just fishing around wanting to run test after test but not really finding anything definitive. It turns out that this forum was spot on with my issues. I was then able to go to a doctor recommended here to get a definitive diagnosis & he took one look at my scan and said he would put me on his surgery schedule. While I wasn’t happy that I had ES, I was comforted that finally someone knew what was going on & that there are a few doctors out there who are qualified to do the surgery. I also think that it is so great that everyone on here understands what the journey is like & is so willing to help each other out by sharing information.

I’m sure it’s been a challenge being a PhD student and dealing with the health issues at the same time. I’m glad though that your research skills paid off in allowing you to convince the surgeon about what is going on. I am also a psychologist, although I stopped working in the field when I started homeschooling my kids. I wish you the best while finishing up your schooling. It will be great to be able to put that PhD after your name on the book!

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Hi! Sorry not trying to hijack, but I am just trying to do research as I try to decide who to proceed with for surgery. I did not realize that removing this was not standard, so that is really informative - thank you!

Do you regret doing surgery with Dr. Costantino at all - or feel like he removed too much?

Thanks for giving such helpful and thorough responses, this really is a very wonderful forum and appreciate people volunteering their time to share information.

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Hi @ @leeski! I understand about doing research & trying to figure out what to do and who to go with for surgery. My decision to go with Dr. Costantino had to do with his experience in doing the surgery on people with the vascular complications. During our consult, he talked about Venous Outflow Obstruction, which can be caused by ES as well as other sortts of compression. I felt that he & Dr. Tobias were the first people I met who actually knew about what was going on & had the skill set to deal with it. I would’ve probably also consulted with Dr. Hepworth, but he is much farther away from me & his wait time was much longer. I do think that he is very thorough based on the experiences of others on this forum. Also, Dr. C was able to do my surgery much more quickly. In fact, he had an opening about a month after our consultation. That was a little sooner than I wanted since I kind of needed time to process what was going on (I’ve never had surgery before so was pretty nervous). Anyway, I was a little hesitant to have all of those structures removed during surgery, especially if it wasn’t necessary; however, I also trusted that Drs. C & Tobias knew what they were doing based on the many surgeries that they have done. I think that they try to clear as much as possible so that it gives the IJV the best chance of staying decompressed. Dr. C mentioned that he does this to reduce the possibility of having to have another surgery & with his familiarity with that area, I understand that he knows more about it than I do. Also, when they were doing the surgery, they realized that there was other compression going on and went ahead and dealt with that issue. Anyway, I do not regret having the surgery and I think that it has helped with the head pressure, headaches and other symptoms. I am not completely symptom free all the time, but there are times that I am. I’m not sure what that means exactly. However, even when I do have symptoms, they are much less than they were before the surgery. I know that this can be a stressful time especially because you are trying to make the decision. Every case is a little different so I think it’s best to get a couple of opinions from respected surgeons and then see how everything lines up for treatment. Please let me know if you have any other questions. I’ll be happy to let you know more about what my experience was like. It is SO helpful to be able to talk with others who have been through this. I know that this forum helped me a lot to know what to expect and to be prepared for surgery. Take care!

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